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Killington Nov 17 2012

bdfreetuna

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Made it up there with my friend and got on K-1 gondola around 10:00AM. First run down I believe we hit Rime. We found out right away that things were going to be very scratchy with a lot of boilerplate. My skis had a fresh tune up with 1 degree / 87 degree edge and as this was my first day out for the season I quickly found out my legs were going to get a workout just trying to keep an edge today.

Confindence on the skis increased over the next few runs, as we stayed on the North Face area and took some laps on those trails. My skis like to go fast and hard -- they are great for long arcs and also great in the woods where you can swish them around -- but as for trying to make short turns to control speed on boilerplate they leave a lot to be desired.

So the problem was that I wanted to go fast and make long arcs to maintain stability on the scratchy hardpack, but there was a fair amount of trail congestion and also areas like the bottom of Rime and several other areas were so slick it would be fairly sketchy to try to slow down from speed. My skis don't carve quick turns on boilerplate... they're 185cm and I weigh 160lbs. So the best way to drop speed fast in those conditions is to dig in sideways. I wanted to avoid doing that as much as possible so the morning involved a lot of going fast combined with very careful planning of my line ahead to avoid slower traffic and keep an eye out for patches of soft snow where I could better control my speed (and try to get in as many turns on the soft while it lasted).

Skiing like this on the first day out for the season killed my legs. Basically trying to make long GS turns on skiied off trails all day.

There were a few trails that had more snow, which mostly involved patchy small moguls, or more accurately small random piles of soft snow in between the scratch.

The snow softened up slightly in the early afternoon but soon after that the sun was down over the back of the mountain which made some sections a little sketchy as it was harder to see the details in the snow, and also knowing that a majority of the trail was likely to be slick.

Probably the last time I skied that many green circle runs I was like 6 years old. But these trails tended to be less skied off and not requiring many turns anyway and much safer in these conditions to go along at a good clip.

Over the course of the day I believe I improved my skills at skiing the kind of conditions I really do not enjoy. There were a fair amount of good skiers and riders on the mountain today and a few of the racers were able to carve impressively through the hard stuff. This reminded me of some lessons from my high school race days and I believe my technique was pretty good, but ultimately it was the strength of my legs which gave out.

Just before 3:00PM I hit a series of big dips up and down on one of the trails.. the bottom of whatever that trail is below Mouse Trap (this trail was not at all enjoyable to ski..) and with each dip I felt my legs give out more and more. I had to pull a sudden stop because I was suddenly in a fair amount of pain.

Skied down to the lodge and my friend and I agreed we should call it a day, no need to punish ourselves any more.

Wish I had a more bad ass report but it is what it is! peace
 

bdfreetuna

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Thanks Scotty well it's usually not great if you're going to hit it early season but last year for example early season at K was much different it was mostly fresh tracks under the guns all day. It seemed like K was focusing on keeping the guns on Bittersweet and some trails over on Rams Head as they seemed to figure the trails that were open were fine even if they got melted down and frozen over.

IMO they would do better to focus on keeping fewer trails in better condition. I don't mind skiing under the guns in fact I had a blast doing that the first time out last year.

Still was a fun day, met some cool people, good time with my friend, etc... just not one for the books.
 

Puck it

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Trails were fine yesterday. Just remember it is all man made and will be fast. You might want to be a short ski if 185cm is too long and you can not control them.


Mach schenll!!!
 

bigbog

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Hey bd...every day in the early season is a learning experience, but is far better than not being there!..y/n? They're usually days that become what one makes of them. Agree with Puck it​, 185 is pretty long...even for a powder ski for ~160. Might wanna sometime demo a carver @~155-163 and feel the differences. One often has to stay with short-to-medium radius turns as well as less aggressive turns...just to maintain control and/or avoid getting kicked off the mountain by patrol.....;-) ..especially when the crowds and limited trails combine.
 
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bdfreetuna

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You guys make valid point but truth be told I love my 185s and 98% of the days I ski I wouldn't trade them for anything else.

I enjoy a ski that encourages me to step up my game and rewards me at speed with total stability as well as being great in the woods, steeps, and spring conditions.

I am fairly certain a shorter ski wouldn't have been much better today. I used to ski shorter skis (like 160) at the same weight and height but since I picked up these Rossi 185s I don't think I would ever go less than 178cm. Race-tuned skis were the order of the day but I only can afford one pair of skis so I aim my skis to be overall best for the majority of conditions and terrain I ski.

No doubt the conditions may have been better yesterday but apparently the hard pack got a bit of a melt and freeze in the mean time.

It's not like the skis are bad at short turns but in conditions where you can't slide the back out at all without completely losing the edge it's just a whole lot easier to arc it big. And like I was saying I love these skis to death but probably the main factor in my less than stellar performance today besides the boilerplate was my virgin thighs.

Overall I think I skiied fairly well considering but at the same time, having taken something like 8 years off skiing, before that time I raced and was in top physical shape.. since I have got back into skiing just over a couple years ago I have been holding myself to really high standards so days like this are a bit of a disappointment although I did progress over the course of the day and like you said BigBog it was definitely a learning experience.

I enjoy skiing fast anyway unless its the woods where I just like to jam out so that's part of the reason I like the long planks. I'd rather feel a little squirrely trying to make quick turns on ice than feel out of control all of a sudden when I've already reached a fairly serious clip.

I appreciate your comments/suggestions.
 
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deadheadskier

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My skis had a fresh tune up with 1 degree / 87 degree edge and as this was my first day out for the season I quickly found out my legs were going to get a workout just trying to keep an edge today.

Confindence on the skis increased over the next few runs, as we stayed on the North Face area and took some laps on those trails. My skis like to go fast and hard -- they are great for long arcs and also great in the woods where you can swish them around -- but as for trying to make short turns to control speed on boilerplate they leave a lot to be desired.

So the problem was that I wanted to go fast and make long arcs to maintain stability on the scratchy hardpack, but there was a fair amount of trail congestion and also areas like the bottom of Rime and several other areas were so slick it would be fairly sketchy to try to slow down from speed. My skis don't carve quick turns on boilerplate... they're 185cm and I weigh 160lbs.

I assume the picture in your signature are your skis. What model Rossi's are they?

Outside of a Powder Ski or a GS race ski, 185 cms is pretty big for a 160# skier these days. I'm 5'8 185# and my All Mountain Carving ski is a 175. My Powder skis are 184.
 

Puck it

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You guys make valid point but truth be told I love my 185s and 98% of the days I ski I wouldn't trade them for anything else.

I enjoy a ski that encourages me to step up my game and rewards me at speed with total stability as well as being great in the woods, steeps, and spring conditions.

I am fairly certain a shorter ski wouldn't have been much better today. I used to ski shorter skis (like 160) at the same weight and height but since I picked up these Rossi 185s I don't think I would ever go less than 178cm. Race-tuned skis were the order of the day but I only can afford one pair of skis so I aim my skis to be overall best for the majority of conditions and terrain I ski.

No doubt the conditions may have been better yesterday but apparently the hard pack got a bit of a melt and freeze in the mean time.

It's not like the skis are bad at short turns but in conditions where you can't slide the back out at all without completely losing the edge it's just a whole lot easier to arc it big. And like I was saying I love these skis to death but probably the main factor in my less than stellar performance today besides the boilerplate was my virgin thighs.

Overall I think I skiied fairly well considering but at the same time, having taken something like 8 years off skiing, before that time I raced and was in top physical shape.. since I have got back into skiing just over a couple years ago I have been holding myself to really high standards so days like this are a bit of a disappointment although I did progress over the course of the day and like you said BigBog it was definitely a learning experience.

I enjoy skiing fast anyway unless its the woods where I just like to jam out so that's part of the reason I like the long planks. I'd rather feel a little squirrely trying to make quick turns on ice than feel out of control all of a sudden when I've already reached a fairly serious clip.

I appreciate your comments/suggestions.

Then let me know when and what mountain so I can avoid it! Thx.
 

riverc0il

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Outside of a Powder Ski or a GS race ski, 185 cms is pretty big for a 160# skier these days. I'm 5'8 185# and my All Mountain Carving ski is a 175. My Powder skis are 184.
Even for a GS ski, I would think 185 would be too long for 160# skier. Some manufacturers don't even have GS skis as large as 185cm any more, and if they do that is as long as they go for the heaviest racers.

My everyday ski for a long time was 178cm and I am 220lbs. I'm currently at 186 with early tip rise and I definitely wouldn't go any longer than that. A lot depends on construction of the ski, though. I've skied the same length in different brands/models with radically different results. In any case, 185 is a pretty big ski unless it is an older model... say 10-12 years ago that was about right.

If it is the right ski for the right person, size doesn't matter. But if you can't make small, tight turns due to crowded conditions, that may not be the best one ski quiver.
 
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bdfreetuna

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they are Rossignol Phantom SC80 185s, I don't think there are set lengths for certain weights/heights it's more depending on how you like to ski. I like to go hard on the mountain and sure haha I'll warn you where I am so you can avoid that ski area that day ;).. but in reality some skiers prefer to go hard, some prefer to take it easy, and everyone has a different style.

The skis do fine in the bumps. Like I said next pair of skis I may go down to 178cm, but it depends on rise in the tip and tail among other factors for the specific ski.

You all are correct of course and your suggestions are the same I would give to other skiers. I make an exception for myself because I expect a ski that can be pushed to its limits in certain conditions. Riverc0il the skis are more responsive for quick turns than I probably made it sound.

It came down to boilerplate, lack of leg conditioning, and my skis not being ideal under boilerplate/weak leg conditions. Fortunately the snow will soften and pile up and my legs will get stronger pretty quickly so I hope to have more reports where it sounds like I had alot more fun. The Rossi Phantoms are going to be the only skis in the quiver for at least one more season. Sometimes you gotta work with what you're workin with.
 

Bene288

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I know where you're coming from, BDfreetuna. I have 186's. I'm much bigger than you, but I agree that it comes down to how you like to ski. Some people just like longer skis. And with tip and tail rises the way they are nowadays, you really are probably only skiing on 178cm of the ski (if your Rossis are anything like my one quiver ski). The longer skis tend to challenge you a bit more in my opinion, definitely faster like you said. Nothing can handle well on those boilerplate conditions. We had the same conditions at Jiminy today. I saw incredible skiers struggle on that hard snow, the carvers with 160-170cm and 77ish waist skis were having just as hard of a time as us guys with the wider waist planks. Like you, I'd prefer a ski I can rip in the trees and soft snow over a ski that is slightly better at shorter turns on the hard ice. I'm planning for Kmart on Tuesday, think they'll be making any more snow?
 

SkiFanE

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I love my SL skis in these conditions. Can get great edge and turn tighter than the other skiers which means its easier to turn on bumps of snow amongst the boiler plate. Or u can ski that 6' wide line of bumps along the trees easily to avoid all boilerplate. IMO expecting big long fast arcing turns on crowded early season days is dangerous.
 

bdfreetuna

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K is obviously making snow but I think they are focusing the guns on expanding terrain at this point. Ramshead and stuff off the Superstar for the most part.

I don't think I was skiing dangerously at all. I mean yeah if somebody literally appeared out of thin air right in front of me we'd both be squashed. Somebody else actually skiied into me that day (when I was stopped taking a breather in what seemed like a pretty safe area), and I saw two other collisions that were pretty bad. In all these cases it looked like people weren't giving slower skiers enough space behind them. Instead I think if you want to pass someone safely in these conditons there's no need to drop speed as long as you know there is enough room to arc around them on the edge of the trail. I'll ski right off the trail before I would ever hit somebody, and I can't remember the last time I ever did hit somebody. But keeping alert and knowing my skis and myself were able to actually handle better with some speed... there were definitely people skiing faster than me as well. Racers routinely zip down trails in no time but I don't think you could call them dangerous because they are maintaining focus and speed is their game.

Well Bene288 I'm glad I'm not the only one who still likes longer planks ! Sounds like your reasons are about the same as mine.

Give me a couple more days on the slopes and the legs will be able to work the hard pack/ice better.. it's just training for spring skiing anyway :)
 
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