Killllington 🎿🏂🏂🎿🎿🏂🏂🎿😀

[machski]

The folks in the new ownership group have enough business experience to recognize that capital spending needs ROI to make business sense. I could see them perhaps making smaller investments on a "we don't need to calculate ROI because we know this will improve the skier experience" basis, but the interconnect is a whole different scale and will create ongoing operational costs as well as the capital outlay.

Perhaps, but they are spending capital on Skyeship and it's basin (new cabins/upgraded controls and storage barn for the lift, snowmaking infrastructure to include Valley Plunge). Given the low elevation here, one might think this would run opposed to ROI.

Also remember, some snowmaking infrastructure already runs in the interconnect. I believe the link to Pico from K runs thru the interconnect and up the Pico backside trail already cut. Yes, there would need to be expansion of snowmaking in there and at least 2 lifts. But that is high elevation terrain that would favorable natural snowfall and retention of snow. Given the transformative nature of the village and being more central to the interconnect than Skyeship, one could question why the new owners are doing anything on the far side of the resort. But, opinions are as plentiful as apples soon will be in New England.

 

[machski]

I think that some of the lack of new terrain acres, especially in the East, has to be tied to the massive amount of environmental regulations that have to be met (and often litigated through) to get to the point where a ski area can think about contacting a logging/land clearing/grading firm to get the project going

That really goes for anywhere that a ski area sits on public lands. Private lands however, just look how fast Pow Mow is expanding (granted, half is off limits to the skiing/riding public).
I think in the East, the slow pace has more to do with the intensive capital to cover any expansion with snowmaking. That is not as critical out west, especially for higher elevation developments. Though DV is probably a good case study on expansion into low snow zones out west.

 

[Newpylong]

The conspiracy theorists might argue that because one of the main partners lives off Great Eastern, that might weigh in on some of these decisions. I am in the other camp that sincerely thinks these guys have noticed firsthand the lack of capital investment and are simply doing what is prudent. Devil's Fiddle has inoperable snowmaking, so they fixed it. Valley Plunge had snowmaking until the mid 90s and has laid fallow since. It seems they intend to fix it. The Skyeship (despite Stage I being only open Christmas to end of March) is a vital piece of infrastructure that has been neglected. Not only is it critical as another weekend access point, but since the mountain started advertising the 3,000 vert "Peak to Creek" run, it sees a ton more traffic.

These are just two examples. Good owners ensure the entire resort is in good working order, not just the "in your face" portions. All POWDR seemed to care about is their shiny new lodges and the World Cup.

 

[mister moose]

The Skyeship (despite Stage I being only open Christmas to end of March) is a vital piece of infrastructure that has been neglected.

Christmas to end of March is the core season where the bills get paid. I'm not sure I'd characterize that as 'despite' - 'only'

 

[jimmywilson69]

and perhaps better snowmaking infrastructure can extend the season to skyeship if they want or business levels warrant.

Also doesn't hurt that the boss likes to ski in/out of his home

 

[Newpylong]

Eh they had a TON of snow down to Route 4 this past year when Stage I closed due to the new fixed equipment. They are choosing to close it end of March based on some other business metric. I can see pulling the plug the last weekend in March, but they have to get it open by Christmas consistently and that has been a struggle.

 

[slatham]

I am not educated on the parking plans for the village, but would guess all those lodges, condos and homes will increase traffic and decrease day trip parking, making Skyship base vital for day trippers.

 

[skiur]

I am not educated on the parking plans for the village, but would guess all those lodges, condos and homes will increase traffic and decrease day trip parking, making Skyship base vital for day trippers.

Parking will become mostly remote so if you want to park near the slopes your choices will be skyeship and bear.

 

[Newpylong]

Right and considering all 3 lots for Skyeship are plugged as well as people parking on Route 4 on busy weekends, that's why I would argue that access point will become more important than ever once the village goes in.

Long term I can see them making snow on two routes down there as well, I think this was imminent with Lower Juggernaut coming back onto the map as Field Goal, which along with Touchdown does have snowmaking, albeit unused. Doubt they will make snow on Home Stretch above there as that usually fills in with natural snow well and that's a ton of acreage for not much return, but we will see.

 

[mister moose]

Field goal is not a route, it's an expedition, and very few will do it twice. The traffic on GE will remain.

 

[Newpylong]

Comparing how it is now (completely natural, unfilled water bars, rocks and narrow at the top) is not accurate to how it could be.

If they make snow on the portion from Touchdown split on down (which was intended to be the case when it was installed in 1994), then it could absolutely become a "route". That is the entire point of why Pres Smith did what he did down there when 4 Mile, Lower Juggernaut, and Touchdown were widened and had snowmaking installed.

 

[letitsnow1]

And the back part of the bear lot is closed for the new condos.
Hopefully they eventually put a lift or gondola down to the new remote parking

 

[EPB]

Right and considering all 3 lots for Skyeship are plugged as well as people parking on Route 4 on busy weekends, that's why I would argue that access point will become more important than ever once the village goes in.

Long term I can see them making snow on two routes down there as well, I think this was imminent with Lower Juggernaut coming back onto the map as Field Goal, which along with Touchdown does have snowmaking, albeit unused. Doubt they will make snow on Home Stretch above there as that usually fills in with natural snow well and that's a ton of acreage for not much return, but we will see.

So for arguments sake, is there a lot of space for parking down at the bottom of the old Sunrise? You’d need a minimum of a 9000 foot high speed quad and (presumably) a snowmaking overhaul to make it worth while. That would probably cost about $20mm including the land/lodge purchase, right?

 

[Newpylong]

That is a ton of parking there, but the better ROI would be to run to just lease the lots and run a shuttle from there to Bear and Skyeship vs rebuild Lower Sunrise. The also don't own it anymore (it's currently up for sale!).

 

[nycskier]

And the back part of the bear lot is closed for the new condos.
Hopefully they eventually put a lift or gondola down to the new remote parking

A lift straight to the Mountain Green parking lot sounds amazing!

 

[bigbob]

Speaking of Bear, the orginal plan after the land was sold to build the condos was to take the money, tear down the lodge and rebuild it. Anyone know what the current plan is? Did the money go to Powdr or the new owners?

 

[mister moose]

Did the money go to Powdr or the new owners?

Interesting question. The sale of the land to Ottauquechee was September 19th and the sale of Killington/Pico was closed September 27. The Bear land was sold during the K/P sales contract period.

 

[Newpylong]

Speaking of Bear, the orginal plan after the land was sold to build the condos was to take the money, tear down the lodge and rebuild it. Anyone know what the current plan is? Did the money go to Powdr or the new owners?

I'm not sure where the money is going to come from but yes they do plan on either replacing the lodge or a back to the studs renovation like Skyeship.