Late October Snowmaking?

[Greg]

SR could go to Cascades, Sunday Punch, or just stop at the mid station on the Locke triple and only offer T2 with downloading...they've done all three variations in the past...sometimes its the Barker quad that'll open first, other times T2 mid station and up. I'd say its all in the air now with new owners.

Cool. I didn't know there was a mid-station. Downloading capabilities always help. In a sense, both could win. Boyne with first to open at SR, and Peak with first top-to-bottom at Attitash!

 

[Vortex]

Nothing on Barker, it will be Locke. Then you don't have to go to the base. Nothing matters until the guns are on and then will get a better idea.

edit

I see Eastcoastpowderhound came to the rescue.I have work to do.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

This has been pretty retentless...even got a quick infusion of a couple of posts from kzoners...must be a slow day over there....:lol: We are gonna pay for this crazy indian summer weather we just had and it's gonna be in payments of cold and snow....yea baby! Carry on......

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

What bothers me about your posts is you make them with this annoying absolute tone as if everything you post is fact.

QUOTE]

:beer:

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

What do you do? I thought you stated somewhere here a while ago that you were in law school.

He Did??????:idea:

 

[ski_resort_observer]

Originally Posted by snowman
What do you do? I thought you stated somewhere here a while ago that you were in law school.

I knew it! I suspected Greg was a lawyer and his email asking a ski hill to make their moguls to his personal specifications confirms it. I bet his law clerks are the ones running AZ. Trailboss is the one who built that really nice deck on that really nice house in CT and has 2 sweet kids. Just when think you know your forum's site administrator.....the sky is falling, the sky is falling! I would love to hear Marc's take on this new revelation.

 

[Highway Star]

I have to sit back and laugh about all this talk about needing 60 hour snowmaking window to get open. That's a crock. Snowman has NOT been doing his homework. That only applies to Killington's K-1/Glades/Snowdon opening, where they typically have to produce 100-150 acre feet of snow, down to ~2,500 ft at the bottom of the Snowdon Quad. It takes them !60 hours, because while they can pump enough water to do it in much less time, they run out of air capacity to run the guns in marginal temps (28F wet bulb). Believe me, when resorts are under the gun to be open for Thankgiving weekend, they will ceratinly blow in those temps, just like Killington did last year.

Anyway, nobody should take that as being an "early opening stragegy"......anything requiring a 60 hour window sure as hell isn't. That's their strategy because they simply want to open all that terrain, so they can get a massive number of skier visits for early season skiing. It would be much easier if they simply installed and upper mountain lift, or made snow on the Superstar trail pod instaid.

Killington's old strategy with the double chair and midstation was MUCH more agressive. They only had to make snow on one trail, 2,000 ft long, and it was above 3,500 feet. And it wasn't much snow - about 1-2 feet of cover, if that. That's about 5-10 acre feet of snow. They could pound that out in around 12 hours - one solid night or two. That's how they could get open as early as September 30th.

Again, this 60 hours BS certainly does not apply to Sugarloaf, with any kind of opening senario. I was at the Sugarloaf opening last year - they had Tote road open off the Superquad. It's around 9,000 ft long. They probably made around 35-50 acre ft of snow on it. I found an older pump capacity figure of 4,800 gallons per minute for them - if you assume that, it would take around 30 hours to pump enough water for 50 acre feet. I got the overall impression that they had blown snow for a couple days before they opened up. There were low e-guns in use, it was fairly cold out.

Futhermore, there's nothing saying they can't open on the spillway doubles or the Timberline quad, with downloading. Both are at signifigantly higher elevation, around 3k ft to start, and around 4,000 ft long. It should be possible to open either of those with around 20-30 acre feet of snow. They should be able to do that in about 24 hours........so, two solid nights of reasonable mid-20s weather, and they'll probably open up..................................

 

[snowman]

I'm certainly no expert and I've never skied either mountain, but based on Google Earth, Illusion is about 1 mile long with a summit and base elevation of ~2,080' and 680' respectively. Not sure where SR usually goes after T2. Maybe Cascades? In any event it will likely also end up being about 1 mile with a summit/base of ~2,560'/1,150'. Two pretty comparable runs it appears.

I've skied both, but it's been quite a while since I was at Attitash. Yes, Sunday River has a mid station on the Locke triple which they utilized that last season (or the season before, or both?) to get open faster. Bob R was saying the plan is to do T2 first, which I was thinking was one of the ones off the skiers left of the Sunday River express...but on checking the map it's on Locke. I typically don't pay a lot of attention to trail names when skiing. They probably do Locke first for the fact they can utilize the mid-station in desperation, the fact it uses a lot less power than the express, and historical reasons. They've covered Sunday Punch first in years gone by, but I can't recall what they've done in the last couple years. I think it will be a pretty good competition between those 2 to see who can cover top to bottom first. Same temps, similar trail specs, different technology. They both would have all the air they need. I think Attitash is probably more water limited than the River, but that won't play into it because they won't need maximum water pumping capability because of the temperature limitations. The winner might also not be the true winner in the end either. I've seen some pretty sketchy cover on opening day battles. What one company might determine to be a covered trail might not necessarily be what another will feel right about opening on.

 

[Greg]

I knew it! I suspected Greg was a lawyer and his email asking a ski hill to make their moguls to his personal specifications confirms it. I bet his law clerks are the ones running AZ. Trailboss is the one who built that really nice deck on that really nice house in CT and has 2 sweet kids. Just when think you know your forum's site administrator.....the sky is falling, the sky is falling! I would love to hear Marc's take on this new revelation.

I'm that transparent, am I? :lol:

 

[BushMogulMaster]

Again, this 60 hours BS certainly does not apply to Sugarloaf, with any kind of opening senario. I was at the Sugarloaf opening last year - they had Tote road open off the Superquad. It's around 9,000 ft long. They probably made around 35-50 acre ft of snow on it. I found an older pump capacity figure of 4,800 gallons per minute for them - if you assume that, it would take around 30 hours to pump enough water for 50 acre feet. I got the overall impression that they had blown snow for a couple days before they opened up. There were low e-guns in use, it was fairly cold out.

I'm not arguing your analysis, but remember that there's no way they'd be running at full water capacity on their one run (for early opening) in marginal conditions like we seem to be looking at this year. It might not take them 60 hours, but I would lean more toward a 40-45 hour scenario. However, I'm not that familiar with their snowmaking system, so I won't make any firm judgments or assessments without further data.

 

[snowman]

I'm not arguing your analysis, but remember that there's no way they'd be running at full water capacity on their one run....

I've discovered the best solution is simply pretend they (star, steeze et al) don't exist. They've already admitted they've never even laid their hands on a snow gun and acknowledging them only gets you a spamfest of posts full of crap. Last year it actually took about a month of snowmaking (if you're going by Calander days and not hours online) to get open. Actual snowmaking hours online prior to opening last year were probably in the neighborhood of 150.

 

[Greg]

I've discovered the best solution is simply pretend they (star, steeze et al) don't exist. They've already admitted they've never even laid their hands on a snow gun and acknowledging them only gets you a spamfest of posts full of crap.

Hey! You forgot to specifically include me in there. After all, you really showed me in this thread. To be honest, I was feeling a bit left out. I guess I'll just have to be content falling under the "et al" category...

 

[snowman]

Hey! You forgot to specifically include me in there. After all, you really showed me in this thread. To be honest, I was feeling a bit left out. I guess I'll just have to be content falling under the "et al" category...

You haven't proven yourself to be a complete and utter moron....unlike the aforementioned. That is why I'm still responding to you, however, antagonistic posts like this one do not help your cause.....

 

[millerm277]

I've discovered the best solution is simply pretend they (star, steeze et al) don't exist. They've already admitted they've never even laid their hands on a snow gun and acknowledging them only gets you a spamfest of posts full of crap. Last year it actually took about a month of snowmaking (if you're going by Calander days and not hours online) to get open.

I'm not following your logic here. I didn't follow most of the other areas last year, so I won't comment on their opening times. However, I know Killington blew a bunch of snow at the beginning of November, but it was almost completely melted by the time they actually got the cold weather that let them open, I wouldn't consider the early snowmaking to be part of how long it took to get them open.

Also, for much of this discussion, I don't think it matters much as to if you've laid your hands on a snowgun or not.

Actual snowmaking hours online prior to opening last year were probably in the neighborhood of 150.

How exactly is that? Most of the areas opened in a very short window of cold weather.

 

[Greg]

You haven't proven yourself to be a complete and utter moron....unlike the aforementioned. That is why I'm still responding to you, however, antagonistic posts like this one do not help your cause.....

Ooooh. Thanks for the compliment, and I'll try to be more careful then. I really wouldn't want to risk you ignoring me...

You know, snowman, you might actually know some stuff, but, your delivery really sucks. If you would only try to self analyze a bit and learn to be slightly humble, people might like you more. However, antagonistic posts like this one do not help your cause......

 

[snowman]

I'm not following your logic here. I didn't follow most of the other areas last year, so I won't comment on their opening times. However, I know Killington blew a bunch of snow at the beginning of November, but it was almost completely melted by the time they actually got the cold weather that let them open, I wouldn't consider the early snowmaking to be part of how long it took to get them open.

Also, for much of this discussion, I don't think it matters much as to if you've laid your hands on a snowgun or not.



How exactly is that? Most of the areas opened in a very short window of cold weather.

The Loaf ground away with so-so temps for days last year only to lose it all and have to start again. That landed them up at well over 100 hours of up time in the snowmaking plants before they opened. The relevance is some fool was saying you could open Tote road with 30 hours of snowmaking. Yeah, maybe, if it's 0F out for 30 hours straight, and even that would be a stretch. I said it'll take them 60 hours of snowmaking with temps hovering around 20 (the BEST forecast right now), and even that is a conservative figure if you look to years past and the ways of the weather. Does that tie it all together for you?

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

You haven't proven yourself to be a complete and utter moron....unlike the aforementioned. That is why I'm still responding to you, however, antagonistic posts like this one do not help your cause.....

Snowman personal attacks will not be tolerated..this is a warning...:dunce: I think you need a timeout

 

[deadheadskier]

Snowman personal attacks will not be tolerated..this is a warning...:dunce: I think you need a timeout

I would be very pleased if said timeout last several years. He does nothing for this site. I'm not saying I'm the dali lama of ski wisdom, but his conceited, ego driven arguing with everyone is getting OLD.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

I would be very pleased if said timeout last several years. He does nothing for this site. I'm not saying I'm the dali lama of ski wisdom, but his conceited, ego driven arguing with everyone is getting OLD.

times two..he goes in circles like Steve Urkel...

 

[BushMogulMaster]

Folks, this is just getting utterly ridiculous. Everyone is being antagonizing, condescending, presumptuous, and arrogant.

Okay, so Snowman's posts come off a little overly assertive. I don't agree with everything he's said either. But good lord, guys... at least he does have some fundamental knowledge base and experience in the industry (more than most people on this forum). It seems all you want to do is attack everything he says and find some way to throw it down his throat. C'mon. Aren't we a little old for that? If you don't like him, pay him no heed and move on. Simple solution. I agree that he could probably take a second to think before he posts some things, but I just don't see what you all think you're accomplishing here.

Just because you don't like someone's online persona... does that mean you should immediately dismiss everything he says?

All you're doing is adding fuel to the fire. Let the dispute rest, and reengage in the topic at hand. And if snowman decides to post something constructive related to the post, it is NOT necessary to pick it apart into a million pieces searching for some new way to flame him.

And snowman, for heaven's sake... quit calling people names. You're not helping things by continuing to put others down with name-calling and condescension. And if you're so sure that you're right about everything, follow the example of a wise man who--when once confronted--simply asked, "Why argue something about which I know I am right?" And perhaps you could consider giving the ego a break and accepting the possibility that maybe someone else is in fact right once in a while?