BenedictGomez
Well-known member
Why has Morse never been fully developed is what I'd like to know. You could go up to 3000 feet letting off somewhere under the Long Trail.
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Lifts that need replacement
- Thread starter woofydoggie
- Start date
Why has Morse never been fully developed is what I'd like to know. You could go up to 3000 feet letting off somewhere under the Long Trail.
Went over this earlier in the thread. Black Bear habitat.
dlague
Active member
Who cares about black bears and
Bicknel thrush etc.
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Bicknel thrush etc.
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MadMadWorld
Active member
The Bicknell Thrush and Black Bears maybe?
Newpylong
Well-known member
Bears have legs and Birds have wings don't they? Lotta space in Vermont...
MadMadWorld
Active member
Was the Morse Highland area part of the Black Bear habitat? I thought it was just higher up.
Basically the area I shaded red here, with a bit more buffer between it and Morse. It also extended up onto Northwestern slope of Whiteface.
4aprice
Well-known member
When I was young (1969 - 1972 or 73) and we had a place up in the village at Smuggs (then known as Madonna Mountain Ski Area) there was a relief map display with all the proposed lifts in one of the mountain offices. Not only did it have lifts up Morse and Whiteface (Sterling Mountain if you want) but there was proposed stuff on the backside of Madonna and across the street from the village up Mt Mansfield. Would have been quite the complex (especially if attached to Stowe).
Alex
Lake Hopatcong, NJ
MadMadWorld
Active member
Yeaaaaa I know nothing about that area.....
4aprice
Well-known member
MMW, When I say "relief map display" I mean a model with the shape of the mountains and little lift towers. Someone spent a lot of time making it. It was really cool and I really wonder what happened to it. You wouldn't destroy it. Someone's got to have it.
Alex
Lake Hopatcong, NJ
Alex
Lake Hopatcong, NJ
MadMadWorld
Active member
There's something to that map that's all I have to say. People have done work in all those areas but as like many places I would never venture out into some of those areas with someone with knowledge of the area. But that would be a very cool map to own!
MadMadWorld
Active member
Basically the area I shaded red here, with a bit more buffer between it and Morse. It also extended up onto Northwestern slope of Whiteface.
Seems like there is plenty of room for development.
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
Yeah, it's ridiculous if that's the correct answer.
For starters, black bear are a species of Least Concern, they're not even close to threated.
Secondly, they're highly adaptable and dont depend on a specific environment for survival.
Not that that even matters so much given there are tens-of-thousands of unspoiled Vermont forest.
Plus the fact that skiing is an activity that isn't that invasive in the first place, and the bears could have that area too, the other 7.5 or 8 months of the year. Seems a lame excuse to prevent building if that truly was the reason.
I explained it earlier in the thread BG. Largest Beech tree stand in the state is where that red dot is. That is a critical food resource for Black Bears prior to hibernation. Beech trees are also endangered due to various diseases. The state's not going to allow development within a considerable buffer of the area. I took part in the forest surveys while I student in UVM's SNR in the 90s.
And honestly, considering that Smuggs has a fleet of chairs that have been around since Abe Lincoln, does anyone think they'll be expanding terrain anytime soon?
And honestly, considering that Smuggs has a fleet of chairs that have been around since Abe Lincoln, does anyone think they'll be expanding terrain anytime soon?
steamboat1
New member
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Attachments
Savemeasammy
New member
Basically the area I shaded red here, with a bit more buffer between it and Morse. It also extended up onto Northwestern slope of Whiteface.
It looks like there would be plenty of room for expansion on the other side of the mountain that faces the rest of the resort.
Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone mobile app
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
I dont understand this.
We have thriving black bear populations from Maine to South Florida, they'll eat anything they can get their ambitious and highly intelligent paws or snouts on, and some do live in areas with no beech trees. So why would bear in Vermont be different? In New Jersey we actually have too many bear due to the great habitat we have, the habitat encroachment that restricts them to certain areas (mostly central and NW), and political-driven bans on bear hunting (though Christie reinstated bear hunting a few years ago). In Central Florida where my Mom lives, habitat loss is a big problem, to the point where bears wander housing development streets at dawn/dusk and pick through trash. But Vermont? I don't see how habitat loss can be much of an argument. I'm all for protecting wildlife that's threatened, and/or not doing things that could put an areas populations in danger, but I think humans sometimes go over-the-top in these efforts. And I think bans on ski trail cutting is a great example of that given the miniscule area effected and the fact that the area isn't "spoiled". New York State is, IMO, the poster-child for this.
But even if the beech tree answer is 100% correct, and perhaps it is, I don't see how cutting 4 or 5 trails would have an impact as a function of the total percentage of the area - what would the entire cut area of 4 or 5 trails represent, maybe 5% of the area? Less?
Zing! I was referring to the old plans back-in-the-day though.
shocking
BG is also the forum's foremost expert on wildlife ecology.
I'm just the messenger dude. Participated in a study. State said no go on trail development in the area.
BG is also the forum's foremost expert on wildlife ecology.
I'm just the messenger dude. Participated in a study. State said no go on trail development in the area.
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
Really?
While sarcastic, the bolded snipe above adds nothing meaningful to the conversation, "study participation" or not. And I never said you weren't correct, but rather that your comment made no sense to me. Our eastern Black Bears aren't Panda Bears or Koala Bears. They are not specialists. In fact, they're the antithesis of specialists with an omnivorous diet, and can thrive elsewhere with or without beech tree stands, and do so quite happily. Which is why it surprised me that beech tree stands would be considered so paramount to their survival that you cant interfere with them so slightly as cutting a few ski trails, given they manage fine in other hardwood forests.
There's your long answer explaining my curiousity. One caveat: Didn't participate in a study.
I would suggest you read on why the Beech tree is so important to Black Bears in Northern Forests. There's very little point in discussing the same species in New Jersey. Just like there's very little point in discussing how white tail deer thrive down your way, but are managed very differently in VT.
