Local Group Lobbies New Hampshire Legislature to Privatize Cannon

[thetrailboss]

Old data. The legislator(s) pushing for this is comparing either visit count or revenues to other places. IIRC, Loon specifically and citing current revenues success from Sunapee.

I'm sorry, but you can't compare Loon to Cannon. Two different mountains. Two different kinds of clientele.

 

[jack97]

I'm sorry, but you can't compare Loon to Cannon. Two different mountains. Two different kinds of clientele.

I agree with your comments. However that can easily change with further de fanging of Cannon and making more amenities that the larger skier population would prefer.

 

[riverc0il]

i don't think cannon can be much further defanged. part of the problem, ironically, is the widening of the trails. even with more snow making and grooming, the mountain terrain is always going to be what it is. the addition of tuckerbrook really helped bring cannon to a new level, but beginners and lower intermediates are never going to be able to ride the major lifts at cannon. no trail regarding money could but could take the lion's share of bite out of cannon's terrain and exposure.

 

[snoseek]

Cannon's core skiers will leave the day it attracts loon's clientele. Better off trying to turn more advanced skiers on to the place.

 

[MadPadraic]

Old data. The legislator(s) pushing for this is comparing either visit count or revenues to other places. IIRC, Loon specifically and citing current revenues success from Sunapee.

Like I said in my earlier post, go ahead and find newer data. The numbers from Sunapee (as reflects the states bottom line) haven't changed much. You can infer that directly from the lease income listed at that link and the 10 year total lease income given by the privateers.

I did some digging, and all I can find is that Cannon's operating budget is something like 4 million and its paid for out of "agency income" rather than "general fund" or "federal funds" or anything like that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that implies Cannon is not subsidized by taxes. Here is the link http://admin.state.nh.us/budget/budget05_03.pdf#DRED

I'm unable to find the agency income broken down by source, or any sort of income statement for DRED of the parks dept.

But anyway, maybe I'm approaching this from a biased perspective but the arguments being put forth by the privateers reak of dishonesty.

 

[jack97]

i don't think cannon can be much further defanged. part of the problem, ironically, is the widening of the trails. even with more snow making and grooming, the mountain terrain is always going to be what it is.

Guess this is where I disagree, with more snowmaking and constant grooming, it will be defanged. A steeper pitch than most but managable. Groom scrabble and open up mid to lower section of mittersill, the teeth gets pulled out.

 

[jack97]

Like I said in my earlier post, go ahead and find newer data. The numbers from Sunapee (as reflects the states bottom line) haven't changed much. You can infer that directly from the lease income listed at that link and the 10 year total lease income given by the privateers.

The number for sunapee reflect what the state gets paid based on the lease. Not a true indicator of visitor count and total revenues of what the Muellers take in.

In terms of Cannon, other than revenues, the visit count would be an interesting number to find and compare this to other places.

 

[Rushski]

Cannon regulars like it how it is. No need to add more snowmaking/grooming, widen trails, start building condos and other fluffy crap to attract families and lower level skiers.

Leave it's character as it is. My brother who has been a passholder for many years would run screaming if they tried to make it a mainstream style area.

 

[MadPadraic]

The number for sunapee reflect what the state gets paid based on the lease. Not a true indicator of visitor count and total revenues of what the Muellers take in.

In terms of Cannon, other than revenues, the visit count would be an interesting number to find and compare this to other places.

Yes, but in terms of this discussion, the total revenues of what the Muellers take in is completely irrelevant.

 

[haines]

Cannon better lease out or they will perish!

Cannon has crappy chili, no beer, no hot dogs. Why would anyone go there?

 

[jack97]

Yes, but in terms of this discussion, the total revenues of what the Muellers take in is completely irrelevant.

Disagree... the total revenues the Muellers take in at Sunapee is relevant, this indicates their performance. Whether they are under, exceeding or doing average performance compare to other local areas.

This data also becomes relevant given some privatization proponents are stating that Cannon is not being utilized to its maximum potential. Stated another way, these guys will never be please if the place just breaks even.

 

[SIKSKIER]

Cannon's core skiers will leave the day it attracts loon's clientele. Better off trying to turn more advanced skiers on to the place.

Truer words were never spoken!Count me as one of them.

 

[jack97]

Truer words were never spoken!Count me as one of them.

Make your voice be heard..... the web site claims that you email comments will go to state legislators.

http://www.gofranconia.com/index.html



Given I'm out of state, I don't count. If it did, I would still vote no on the privatization.

 

[MadPadraic]

Cannon has crappy chili, no beer, no hot dogs. Why would anyone go there?

Is this sarcasm, they certainly have beer and hotdogs? I've never had their chili though...

 

[MadPadraic]

Disagree... the total revenues the Muellers take in at Sunapee is relevant, this indicates their performance. Whether they are under, exceeding or doing average performance compare to other local areas.

This data also becomes relevant given some privatization proponents are stating that Cannon is not being utilized to its maximum potential. Stated another way, these guys will never be please if the place just breaks even.

Performance as measured how? The State of NH is (should) be concerned with the well being of the people of NH. The profits of out of state managers are irrelevant to this. Now, if you want to put forth the argument that more people from NH benifit from changes to Mt Sunapee that is another issue. But, to my knowledge, there are no new hotels or restaurants in the area. The only local ski shop was was far too expensive for me, and if my season pass didn't include Sunapee, I wouldn't go there b/c of their price.

At the same time, LOCALLY owned Ragged, Sunapee's closest geographical competition, is near death. This probably has more to do with the emergence of Crotched and Sunapee than bad management at Ragged, but it is yet another example of private mountain management failing. (Along with ASC, Haystack, Temple, Tenney, Mt Tom, etc)

On the other hand, I understand that the towns near Mt Sunapee have increased their budgets through more and more traffic tickets.

 

[SIKSKIER]

I'd disagree with the automatic assumption that a private company is always a better model of efficiency and that anything that's government run is just an inneficient mess that's by its nature incapable of being well run. This is a broad generalization that has been so well grafted onto public conciousness that nobody questions its validity any more. I can think of number of exmamples that would support this point but it could get political so I'll refrain.

.

You can disagree with that assumption.The fact is that when a private company is not run right it goes down the tube.That is never the case in a government run department.It just gets more money thrown at it like the postal service and take it out of your endless pockets. Another poster mentioned ASC and that would be a good argument for my post.They are now selling off most of their assets because of mismanagement.

 

[MadPadraic]

You can disagree with that assumption.The fact is that when a private company is not run right it goes down the tube.That is never the case in a government run department.It just gets more money thrown at it like the postal service and take it out of your endless pockets. Another poster mentioned ASC and that would be a good argument for my post.They are now selling off most of their assets because of mismanagement.

This would get very political very fast, so I'll halt my contribution to the ideological part after this: First off, poorly run companies don't automatically go away. Prime historical examples are Chrysler, more recent ones are any number of airlines (e.g. Delta) and AT&T wireless, which has now come full circle to be AT&T again. Second, its not true that public institions cannot be improved upon.

I contend that in the case of Cannon that this is irrelevant, because it is currently well run.

Relevant to ASC, I don't have the personal history with their resorts to comment, but others have in other threads. But surely you will agree that bad management can screw up a mountain for some time. Most notably in the trail structure.

 

[riverc0il]

Cannon has crappy chili, no beer, no hot dogs. Why would anyone go there?

doesn't cannon outsource it's food service or am i imaging things? :lol: incorrect in regards to the beer, btw. beer is served at the peabody, sometimes at the summit i think. not sure about tram base.

 

[SIKSKIER]

Leasing voted done

Cannon does outsource it's food and beverage.I believe it's called the Boston Hospitality group,same one that runs Sugarloaf.I read on WMUR's website today that the house committee voted to recomend to not to lease the ski area.here's the link.
http://www.wmur.com/news/11072444/detail.html
Not trying to get in a fued with you MadPadraic,it's just my opinion.We can disagree on how well Cannon has been run in my 1500+ days of skiing there.But hey,I still really love the place.

 

[thetrailboss]

Regarding Cannon: here's a Northern New England saying that is appropriate--"if it ain't broke don't fix it." :wink: