Magic Mountain ...

[Talisman]

Assuming the pipe is in place and in good repair (which in Magic's case isn't true), labor, snow guns, compressed air and water in ample supply are required. Magic has made some decent snow on a few of the trails, but lacks water and only has a few air compressors. Major snow making pipe failures have occured flooding trails in the past with a spot up hill from the Black chair being a memorable ice patch.

With enough water, compressed air, labor and the will to use them Magic could be a SoVT gem for experts, intermediates and novices. To be viable Magic needs to solve the snow making issues to get more than Talisman, Wizard, Trick and Magic Carpet open on faux snow.

 

[bvibert]

PS the Red Chair is a lot more reliable than one would gather from reading this thread. In the last 5 years I can remember only one time when a wheel (shive?) went and the chair had to run slowly to unload people. Alsothe Red Chair was down for a period of time 2 years ago (The Black Chair was used) because the shive? trains were sent out for rebuilding (prior to opening) and didn't come back for almost a month after the mountain opened.

The slow Red Chair makes it to the top (one mile) in 12 minutes.

I'm not trying to bash the place, I actually love the red chair and hope they can keep it in place, but I remember at least two occasions last year where the red chair had problems. One of the times a forum member was stuck on it for a while and had to be evacuated. I know that sometimes shit just happens, but there's no denying that it's an old chair. Maybe it just needs to get some TLC.

 

[RustyGroomer]

I hate to be the nay sayer here, I LOVE Magic and want to see it open. But people verbally committed because they have heart. They are taking their time writing checks because they have an objective look at the situation. It is a extremely risky proposition to invest in Magic right now, especially at the price of $3000 per share. The ski area is unstable and lacks the needed capital to make critical long term investments. That whole 60/20/20 split on ownership would be tough to swallow as well, even with shareholders having a majority stake. Going coop should not be a decision of last resort but a decision in spirit of the mountain and its long term needs. This is too desperate to appear a wise financial investment. I suspect the folks who put their money with their mouth is on this deal are doing so with a lot of heart for the mountain, which I deeply respect as the mountain has long since captured my heart. But I don't think heart alone will save any mountain that close to ruin from financial failure... sucks as it may, Magic needs a corporate buyer, IMO, and this is a tough time to find one. Especially given how similar purchases have gone lately (e.g. Burke).

The people I am referring to are people who were very much in favor of this situation @ the end of last year knowing fully what it meant. Some of them friends of mine. Anyone who thinks this is a finacial investment is nuts.

This is simply a rally cry to save a mountain which has been very good to us & a huge bargain for many years. I see my 3K as payback & only want the mountain to remain open in return.

The thought of any high speed lift @ Magic is ridiculous. The mountain skis BIG & as someone else said the 15 minute lift ride is welcomed. On storm days have fun skiing the lower mountain because the fancy high speed quad is on wind hold. I'll take the Red chair & ski the best terrain in Southern Vermont.

 

[thetrailboss]

I'm not trying to bash the place, I actually love the red chair and hope they can keep it in place, but I remember at least two occasions last year where the red chair had problems. One of the times a forum member was stuck on it for a while and had to be evacuated. I know that sometimes shit just happens, but there's no denying that it's an old chair. Maybe it just needs to get some TLC.

The fact that it was closed for almost a month certainly is not great, considering that the season is so short.

 

[bvibert]

Personally, I agree with you. I don't care that much to be honest about having HSQ's. And....considering the terrain at Magic...having a nice 15 mins rest on the lift is well-deserved. However, I do think that if you are trying to increase your skier base....and increase skier days to be profitable....in this day and age, a HSQ is a draw.

Either way...snowmaking by far No. 1 priority for Magic. Period.

I agree that a HSQ might be a big draw to some people, but IMHO it would totally change the character of the mountain, and they likely wouldn't be able to run it as much on windy days like they can with the current red chair. I think they can draw enough people by making other improvements while still keeping the red chair. If they start to get busy enough that the red chair has a line they can always fire up the black chair to up the capacity. Not to mention that if they ever put a chair in the green chair line then they'll have plenty of uphill capacity for what they have. Plus, like you said, the rest you get from the red chair is nice. I've never found the ride to be too long, especially when red line is open and you can watch people either ripping down it or picking their way down like me..

 

[roark]

PS the Red Chair is a lot more reliable than one would gather from reading this thread. In the last 5 years I can remember only one time when a wheel (shive?) went and the chair had to run slowly to unload people. Alsothe Red Chair was down for a period of time 2 years ago (The Black Chair was used) because the shive? trains were sent out for rebuilding (prior to opening) and didn't come back for almost a month after the mountain opened.

The slow Red Chair makes it to the top (one mile) in 12 minutes.

I've been meaning to comment on this - a lot of work has been done on the red chair in the last 2 years. AFAIK It should be in good shape for some time to come. We just hear about it b/c 2knees got stuck on it last year. Given that there is almost never a line of any significance that 12 min is still quicker than waiting in line for a 'faster' detachable at a mcmountain. Slow is better for safety meetings as well

The black chair however... :-?

 

[roark]

On storm days have fun skiing the lower mountain because the fancy high speed quad is on wind hold. I'll take the Red chair & ski the best terrain in Southern Vermont.

Quoted for truth.

I learned my lesson years ago - if it's windy Magic is often the only place in S VT with a chair going to the top. (In fact I recall a certain AZ gathering that was relocated from Sneaux to Magic for that reason - WTF we were going to Sneauz in the first place I can't recall... ) Plus the generally narrower trails hold snow better in the wind, and if the wind does indeed blow the snow off the trail it ends up in the trees, which is where I'd likely be anyway. Win all around.

 

[2knees]

We just hear about it b/c 2knees got stuck on it last year.

its unfortunate because its not meant to be a bash from me on magic. We just like to bust each others stones and that happens to be low hanging fruit.

I love the red chair, i need the 15 minute rest time and its always running in windy weather. I've skied Magic 4 times in the last 2 years. It would've been 6 times but for that lift breakage last year and the year prior, I showed up with money in hand only to be turned away cause the lift was broken. So i guess I've just had terrible timing. 1/3 of my potential visits of 2 years have been skunked by lift issues. I'm not complaining, cause i'd keep going back if i had to ride a t-bar up black line to ski it, but its unfortunate for them in terms of business and revenue.

 

[MR. evil]

its unfortunate because its not meant to be a bash from me on magic. We just like to bust each others stones and that happens to be low hanging fruit.

I love the red chair, i need the 15 minute rest time and its always running in windy weather. I've skied Magic 4 times in the last 2 years. It would've been 6 times but for that lift breakage last year and the year prior, I showed up with money in hand only to be turned away cause the lift was broken. So i guess I've just had terrible timing. 1/3 of my potential visits of 2 years have been skunked by lift issues. I'm not complaining, cause i'd keep going back if i had to ride a t-bar up black line to ski it, but its unfortunate for them in terms of business and revenue.

+1

I was there both those days. I have also skied Magic 4 times in the past 2 years, should have been 6 except for the lift issues. I guess 2knees and I are not allowed to ski Magic at the same time. Two attempts and two days with a busted lift. I really hope Magic is open this season and we get a 3rd chance at it Pat.

 

[snafu]

Okay to reiterate a couple of points that have already been beat to death:

1. Snowmaking - top priority. What Magic needs is the perception of consistency. Knowing that there will be trails open and skiable at pretty much any time of the season is key. Get a good man-made base and anything else mother nature provides is gravy.

3. The lifts - The Red chair has all the makings of a classic chairlift in the vein of the single at MRG - keep it turning and have the black chair ready for additional capacity.

3. The Lodge - was great last year. Didn't try much of the food, but the apres at the bar was relaxing. The kids had fun, I had beer, mom had a drink and there was more than enough room for more to enjoy.

The one topic that was barely touched upon was a viable beginners area. The rope tow on the bunny slope is awful. If you can possibly hold on to the arm when it zips by at the bottom you have to pray that everyone stays on so they don't have to stop it. If they stop it you mine as well get off and ski down from where you are, since you have zero chance of holding on when that bad boy restarts. And I am talking about me, 6' 2" 200lbs, not being able to hold on once that tow restarts. The kids have no chance. So to me Magic does not have a usable beginner area, which doesn't help bring in the families with kids. If money weren't an issue I would get a nice magic carpet in there, have it go a bit higher up the hill and that would definitely be a selling point to skiers with small kids. Other than that your 3 choices at Magic are, go all the way to the top, get jerked around on the bunny slope tow or go tubing. Not many options there.

 

[roark]

The one topic that was barely touched upon was a viable beginners area. The rope tow on the bunny slope is awful. If you can possibly hold on to the arm when it zips by at the bottom you have to pray that everyone stays on so they don't have to stop it. If they stop it you mine as well get off and ski down from where you are, since you have zero chance of holding on when that bad boy restarts. And I am talking about me, 6' 2" 200lbs, not being able to hold on once that tow restarts. The kids have no chance. So to me Magic does not have a usable beginner area, which doesn't help bring in the families with kids. If money weren't an issue I would get a nice magic carpet in there, have it go a bit higher up the hill and that would definitely be a selling point to skiers with small kids. Other than that your 3 choices at Magic are, go all the way to the top, get jerked around on the bunny slope tow or go tubing. Not many options there.

RustyGroomer mentioned the beginner thing earlier - it is important to bring in families... I know first hand - my beginner wife is not a fan of magic... There's actually an area off to lookers right in front of the condos, I believe that was once the beginner area (or maybe just planned to be?). Nicer b/c you don't have folks maching down to maintain speed on the flat back to the red chair mixing with beginners like the current set up. Ideally there could be a magic carpet or chair like the beginner area Mt Snow over there.

 

[Moe Ghoul]

Sounds like Magic has its plate full to get things turned around. Improving snow making and safe reliable lift service should be their top priority. You can't open or ski without that. Heavy promotion with some deals and discounts to attract a bigger crowd and get some cash flow while improving the beginners end of it into the following season will give them another promotional point of sale for next season. I'd hate to see them trying to tackle 10 things and overreaching rather than just focusing on a few big issues and doing it successfully. That'll instill some confidence and hopefully encourage more peeps to become shareholders. I think the 3 grand per share price is steep as well, they should consider fractional shares at $500 for non voting share and you get a few lift tickets each year as the "dividend". And I've never even skied there yet.

 

[bvibert]

RustyGroomer mentioned the beginner thing earlier - it is important to bring in families... I know first hand - my beginner wife is not a fan of magic... There's actually an area off to lookers right in front of the condos, I believe that was once the beginner area (or maybe just planned to be?). Nicer b/c you don't have folks maching down to maintain speed on the flat back to the red chair mixing with beginners like the current set up. Ideally there could be a magic carpet or chair like the beginner area Mt Snow over there.

It's my understanding that the area you're talking about was a functioning beginner's area years ago, with a chair and/or surface lift at the time. I think there's some old trail maps floating around showing it as such.

 

[Beetlenut]

It's my understanding that the area you're talking about was a functioning beginner's area years ago, with a chair and/or surface lift at the time. I think there's some old trail maps floating around showing it as such.

That's also my recollection, back when Timberside was a functioning part of Magic. The beginner area was off to the right hand looker's side of the mountain by itself, where the Little Dipper trail is now.

 

[Mapnut]

Here's an old trail map, I don't know what year: http://teachski.com/brochures/magic/magic3.jpg showing the beginners' slope, Hocus Pocus, and a 1500-foot double chair.

 

[RustyGroomer]

RustyGroomer mentioned the beginner thing earlier - it is important to bring in families... I know first hand - my beginner wife is not a fan of magic... There's actually an area off to lookers right in front of the condos, I believe that was once the beginner area (or maybe just planned to be?). Nicer b/c you don't have folks maching down to maintain speed on the flat back to the red chair mixing with beginners like the current set up. Ideally there could be a magic carpet or chair like the beginner area Mt Snow over there.

Yup, that's where the old beginner area was & where I learned to ski. They had a great little double over there. Nice thing about it was it had multiple routes down. You could come right down the middle in front of the condos. Head even farther lookers right down Rabbit Run. Head lookers left of the chair & you could head down the lower part of Lower Magician.

It was truly a great learning area.

Already posted these but since we're back on this topic.

I don't even have kids & realize this is without a doubt a huge need for the mountain.

 

[deadheadskier]

I stand by my belief that marketing is where the money needs to go. Market 'cheap' for now and 'on the rise' for the future. Pretty much exactly what is working so well even in a down economy at Saddleback. The 'on the rise' stuff doesn't even need to be accurate. Saddleback seemingly changes their master plan each month.....BUT the moment they buy even a new snowmobile, they scream at the top of the lungs that they got it and how happy people are that they do.

this is exactly what I'm talking about :lol:

http://forums.alpinezone.com/62158-what-s-new-saddleback-maine-2009-2010-season.html

'freshies' every day of the season? biggest glade in the Northeast even though White Face is building one that is 25% bigger.

 

[2knees]

this is exactly what I'm talking about :lol:

http://forums.alpinezone.com/62158-what-s-new-saddleback-maine-2009-2010-season.html

'freshies' every day of the season? biggest glade in the Northeast even though White Face is building one that is 25% bigger.

i hear what you're saying but Saddleback doesnt have anywhere near the snow issues that Magic does. It snows pretty well in central maine, much more so then at 2,800 feet in southern vermont, with a base barely above 1,000 feet. Marketing is great, but getting consistent snow and being able to scream that you're open for christmas week is a bit more important.

 

[deadheadskier]

i hear what you're saying but Saddleback doesnt have anywhere near the snow issues that Magic does. It snows pretty well in central maine, much more so then at 2,800 feet in southern vermont, with a base barely above 1,000 feet. Marketing is great, but getting consistent snow and being able to scream that you're open for christmas week is a bit more important.

They do have an advantage of probably 4 feet more natural a season and elevation to preserve snow.

They also have a 4 plus hour ride from Boston on ridiculous roads to a location in the middle of no where that offers skiing and snowmobiling, that's it.

Magic is under 2 hours from Albany, 3ish from Boston and Hartford. That part of VT is loaded with off hill activities and there are already close to 2 million skier visits already right there.

I'm not denying that Magic has snowmaking issues, but with the best expert terrain in Southern VT and two years of great natural snow combined with all the traffic that's already there, my first order of business would be getting a master at marketing and beefing up that budget. They definitely should be doing at least 50K skier visits with what is already there.

 

[thetrailboss]

They do have an advantage of probably 4 feet more natural a season and elevation to preserve snow.

They also have a 4 plus hour ride from Boston on ridiculous roads to a location in the middle of no where that offers skiing and snowmobiling, that's it.

Magic is under 2 hours from Albany, 3ish from Boston and Hartford. That part of VT is loaded with off hill activities and there are already close to 2 million skier visits already right there.

I'm not denying that Magic has snowmaking issues, but with the best expert terrain in Southern VT and two years of great natural snow combined with all the traffic that's already there, my first order of business would be getting a master at marketing and beefing up that budget. They definitely should be doing at least 50K skier visits with what is already there.

+ 1. Their biggest problem is that they had 16k skier visits if not this season than the one before.