The rich and their toys.
A first world issue I could not care any less about.
A first world issue I could not care any less about.
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Membership Dues Increase at Hermitage
- Thread starter njdiver85
- Start date
VTKilarney
Well-known member
There seems to be some schadenfreude going on here. At the end of the day these are skiers and this is a ski area. I don't like to see skiers lose money and I don't like to see ski areas close. The health of our hobby and how skiers are treated is more important to me than one's financial status.
drjeff
Well-known member
Well said.
And in addition, these skiers are people too that are passionate about the sport that we all here on AZ love. The majority of the members of the Hermitage Club that I know and/or have met are very nice people, and not stuck on themselves at all. Many of them are parents and/or grandparents who not only like skiing themselves but also watching their kids and/or grand kids enjoy the sport along side of them. Can't really fault anyone who loves the sport for wanting to do that.
Additionally, just like at any ski area, there are some GOOD skiers (especially masters racers) who are members at the Hermitage, so it's not just all casual beginners.
Last thing, without a doubt, the emergence of the Hermitage Club has been a big asset to the entire Deerfield Valley region of Southern VT, especially since it's rise basically started around the time that the region was devastated by the flooding from Tropical Storm Irene a bit over 6yrs ago. The economic boost that not just development on Club property, but also from associated development in the area by club members helped bring back a geographic area economically where the post Irene damage may very well have been more than some businesses could have survived had there not been the added positive effect from the Hermitage Club.
Lastly, no, I am not a member, never been a member, and not thinking about joining there. Weather and club operational logistics figured out, about as much skin in the Hermitage game that I have is apparently my kids will both have a race there this ski season, so I'll likely be giving them about $80 in race fees this season to "help" put a dent in their financial peril! ;-) :lol:
I actually had to look that word up...but now that I know what it means, I really don't think there was much of it in this thread. There may have been a couple posts like that, but most people were more questioning some of the management decisions that brought them to this point. They weren't celebrating the fact that they're in trouble though.
The best thing that could happen is if they open this to the public. Having a rich-only resort is short-sighted anyway. What happens when the super-rich generation dies off? Most millennials (I'm one of them) are too concerned with trying to buy a house and avocado toast ;-)--the last thing we're gonna do is buy a membership to an exclusive ski club if we've never skied before.
The ski resort isn't even that far up in vermont. It's really close to numerous colleges in Mass. It would be a perfect alternative to mount snow. Mt. Snow has really captured the college and young adult demographic. Those people are the ones skiing in the long run.
This is why a lot of the young people I know have gotten in to alpine touring. Most are tired of being the "renting generation" and want to buy stuff once rather than another monthly payment. Once you've got the gear, climbing the mountain yourself is cheaper!!
The ski resort isn't even that far up in vermont. It's really close to numerous colleges in Mass. It would be a perfect alternative to mount snow. Mt. Snow has really captured the college and young adult demographic. Those people are the ones skiing in the long run.
This is why a lot of the young people I know have gotten in to alpine touring. Most are tired of being the "renting generation" and want to buy stuff once rather than another monthly payment. Once you've got the gear, climbing the mountain yourself is cheaper!!
ThinkSnow
Member
For those who may not remember, the Hermitage at Haystack Mountain, used to operate as Haystack Mountain-- last owned by Mount Snow, but only open on weekends towards the end of Mt. Slow's ownership. Its a great little mountain, with some fun trails, and the Hermitage members are very lucky to have it.
drjeff
Well-known member
The biggest logistical issue to some form of opening the area to the public, would be the base lodge issue.
Yes, they have a BIG, GORGEOUS lodge at the base of their 6 pack. That is way more of a members only clubhouse, than a base lodge. And the members enjoy their clubhouse exclusivity, which is one of the things they pay the $$ for.
To put it in perspective about the clubhouse, the alpine racers from the Mount Snow Academy (a private ski and snowboard academy/winter term boarding school that is a separate entity from the alpine competition and snowboard competition programs that Mount Snow runs) trains at the Hermitage on days when the Hermitage is open. When their athletes are there, unless the athlete's parent is a member of the Hermitage, they athletes and coaches aren't allowed to use the clubhouse, they have to use a smallish lunch room down at the Hermitage Inn (which is a lift ride and a flat run back to/from the main base area of the Hermitage Club).
Trying to figure out how to handle the general public would be an issue for them.
My hunch, is that there's some ego power play going on here, and that ultimately the membership in one way or another will fund the needed finances for the club to keep it going. There is, as the article alluded to, a bunch of real estate development waiting to come on the market for members soon as well as the actual development of their base area hotel/condos which will provide a bunch of capital to the club.
Additionally, one also has to remember that the amount of money that the club is looking to asses members, while not a small amount, for many members there isn't a huge amount either, and many people who are members of various clubs and/or homeowners associations from time to time do find that special assessments for various projects aren't that uncommon. Heck, where my condo at Mount Snow is, our homeowners association is looking at an assessment 2 to potentially 3 times larger than what the Hermitage's proposed assessment is to cover the fact that the mainly original 30+ year old wood siding that has been scraped and painted numerous times over the last 30 years needs to be replaced on all 200+ units and our clubhouse!! While it sucks to get hit with the assessment, you often come to the realization after a while that it needs to be done to continue enjoying something that you liked enough to pay a bunch of money to start doing in the first place....
Yes, they have a BIG, GORGEOUS lodge at the base of their 6 pack. That is way more of a members only clubhouse, than a base lodge. And the members enjoy their clubhouse exclusivity, which is one of the things they pay the $$ for.
To put it in perspective about the clubhouse, the alpine racers from the Mount Snow Academy (a private ski and snowboard academy/winter term boarding school that is a separate entity from the alpine competition and snowboard competition programs that Mount Snow runs) trains at the Hermitage on days when the Hermitage is open. When their athletes are there, unless the athlete's parent is a member of the Hermitage, they athletes and coaches aren't allowed to use the clubhouse, they have to use a smallish lunch room down at the Hermitage Inn (which is a lift ride and a flat run back to/from the main base area of the Hermitage Club).
Trying to figure out how to handle the general public would be an issue for them.
My hunch, is that there's some ego power play going on here, and that ultimately the membership in one way or another will fund the needed finances for the club to keep it going. There is, as the article alluded to, a bunch of real estate development waiting to come on the market for members soon as well as the actual development of their base area hotel/condos which will provide a bunch of capital to the club.
Additionally, one also has to remember that the amount of money that the club is looking to asses members, while not a small amount, for many members there isn't a huge amount either, and many people who are members of various clubs and/or homeowners associations from time to time do find that special assessments for various projects aren't that uncommon. Heck, where my condo at Mount Snow is, our homeowners association is looking at an assessment 2 to potentially 3 times larger than what the Hermitage's proposed assessment is to cover the fact that the mainly original 30+ year old wood siding that has been scraped and painted numerous times over the last 30 years needs to be replaced on all 200+ units and our clubhouse!! While it sucks to get hit with the assessment, you often come to the realization after a while that it needs to be done to continue enjoying something that you liked enough to pay a bunch of money to start doing in the first place....
WWF-VT
Well-known member
Heated bubble six pack....The Hermitage Club deserves their financial fate. This place looks like is a big real estate development that happens to have skiing as its biggest operating expense.
SkiFanE
New member
I'm sure this was directed at me. I don't like to see skiers lose $ either - but "skiers" that lose thousands and thousands of dollars on a piss poor investment? This is a country club, not a ski area. I really have zero sympathy at all - but I don't wish them badly either. Bad investments happen to good people all the time. I'm a skier who plunked $ down on a ski place to ski. If it gains value, great, if it loses, so what - I can still ski from there. That's the attitude you need before you ever plan to buy in ski country.
ss20
Well-known member
Haystack will only survive as a private mountain. They've always struggled. They have never been able to stay afloat being in the shadow of Mount Snow. That's not due to management, or infrastructure, or anything you could possibly update- it's because it's a tiny hill.
Many have tried, many have failed. I don't think the Hermitage is on the verge of "failure" but ten years down the road I bet this cycle continues.
Many have tried, many have failed. I don't think the Hermitage is on the verge of "failure" but ten years down the road I bet this cycle continues.
Looks like the same basic thing as this article:
https://vtdigger.org/2017/10/20/hermitage-club-taps-members-pay-off-debt/#.WftibWhSy70
https://vtdigger.org/2017/10/20/hermitage-club-taps-members-pay-off-debt/#.WftibWhSy70
Jeff,
The condo analogy really doesn't work here. There's some similarities, but it's not the same. I own a condo and have gone through assessment fees. Those are about deferred maintenance and end of life scenarios of physical assets that are communally enjoyed. Those are known and accepted realities of condo ownership.
That's a lot different than dumping $6.9M on new toys and saying whoops, we can't pay our taxes or vendors and BTW we don't have cash reserves to operate. That's gross mismanagement.
As for what the experience of Hermitage is and the finances of those who enjoy it? Makes no difference to me. They are skiers and that's cool by me.
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The condo analogy really doesn't work here. There's some similarities, but it's not the same. I own a condo and have gone through assessment fees. Those are about deferred maintenance and end of life scenarios of physical assets that are communally enjoyed. Those are known and accepted realities of condo ownership.
That's a lot different than dumping $6.9M on new toys and saying whoops, we can't pay our taxes or vendors and BTW we don't have cash reserves to operate. That's gross mismanagement.
As for what the experience of Hermitage is and the finances of those who enjoy it? Makes no difference to me. They are skiers and that's cool by me.
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Smellytele
Well-known member
can hotel guests and the lowly condo users ski at the ski area and use the lodge? If not why stay there?
Or me.
A little place like Haystack has no need for a bubble 6 pack is all I'm saying. Especially if it is to remain private. What could the justification possibly be?
Way overdone.
Family of six gets to ride the lift together is the only justification. It obviously isn't needed capacity
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drjeff
Well-known member
As I recall, and it has been about 2 years since I read the exact details in the press release, the "hotel" is much more like an ASC style fractional ownership condo intended for members use, than an actual for the general public hotel. In it's initial presale "event" if I recall correctly, the members bought out all of the available units in one evening.
Pretty sure that the "hotel" is mainly intended for members and their guests, and not sure if any non members or guests staying there were going to have ski access or not. My recall may not be 100% accurate on that. And things may have, or might in the future if it's built, change
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drjeff
Well-known member
As I said before, they put a bubble 6 in, which they acknowledge is way more capacity than they need, because their members wanted it, and it's a selling point as well. As I recall, one of their ads talked about the ability to get 35 runs in on any given day. 6 minute lift rides with probably not more than a 2 to 4 chair wait on a holiday weekend Saturday certainly has some appeal to those willing to pony up the coin to do so....
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Crotched has maybe a 10-15 chair wait on the busiest holidays for the rocket, and the cost is astronomically lower. I agree that the demographics are in completely different universes.
I have no interest in Haystack, as it so far out of my league. However, it is interesting to see what the top 5% will pony up to ski/golf.
I have no interest in Haystack, as it so far out of my league. However, it is interesting to see what the top 5% will pony up to ski/golf.
mbedle
Well-known member
Haystack will always be a private ski area. When it was sold by Mount Snow, one condition on the sale was it could never be open to the public. The agreement only allows up to 250 tickets to be sold to local residents per day, which I don't think Hermitage every uses.
If they sold 250 a day at $40 a pop theres the 10k they assessed their members
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