Membership Dues Increase at Hermitage

[drjeff]

Haystack will always be a private ski area. When it was sold by Mount Snow, one condition on the sale was it could never be open to the public. The agreement only allows up to 250 tickets to be sold to local residents per day, which I don't think Hermitage every uses.

I think I recall that that condition, just like the rights that Mount Snow had to draw water from the Hermitage's rather quick to refill pond, had something like a 10yr term on that clause. If the clause was from the original sale of Haystack to the developer who bought it prior to Jim Barnes buying it, then that 10yr term, if not up already, is very close....

 

[SkiFanE]

I think I recall that that condition, just like the rights that Mount Snow had to draw water from the Hermitage's rather quick to refill pond, had something like a 10yr term on that clause. If the clause was from the original sale of Haystack to the developer who bought it prior to Jim Barnes buying it, then that 10yr term, if not up already, is very close....

i was wondering how a sale could have a clause like that - sounded more like a lease. One does have a right to do what they like with their property, within the laws, so seemed implausible for a permanent deed restriction

 

[x10003q]

For those who may not remember, the Hermitage at Haystack Mountain, used to operate as Haystack Mountain-- last owned by Mount Snow, but only open on weekends towards the end of Mt. Slow's ownership. Its a great little mountain, with some fun trails, and the Hermitage members are very lucky to have it.

Haystack was and is a bore with less than 1200 foot vertical on the 6 pack. The only enticements are the empty trails and keeping the unwashed masses of regular people off the trails and out of the lodges.

As we see by this current $10k assessment, financing and planning are shaky at best. Installing a $7.3 million six pack when a HSQ would have been fine was pure hubris. No matter how you package "The Hermitage", it is still a ski area and is subject to all the ski area financing problems, especially when you are relying on the next real estate sale to move forward.

Barnes claims that there are 664 members, so if they all hand him $10k, he will have an infusion of $6.64 million.

 

[Hawkshot99]

If they sold 250 a day at $40 a pop theres the 10k they assessed their members


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That's what they charge each member. Not the total.

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[Jully]

If they sold 250 a day at $40 a pop theres the 10k they assessed their members


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That's what they charge each member. Not the total.

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So if they sell 250 tickets a day at $40 a piece for a little over 6 years, they would raise the same amount of money Hermitage will likely raise in a matter of months. If you upped it to a more expensive $80 or $100 per day, we are still talking multiple years to raise that cash. Opening to the public I don't think solves their problem assuming they open to the public in a semi-exclusive way (like limiting ticket sales).

Any public opening that is not exclusive eliminates why everyone signed up for the club in the first place (it certainly wasn't for the terrain at Haystack). They are truly between a rock and a hard place over there.

 

[BenedictGomez]

I have no interest in Haystack, as it so far out of my league. However, it is interesting to see what the top 5% will pony up to ski/golf.

It's more interesting to see what they pony up to join a place and then almost never go there, which is often the case. My brother used to work for a pretty exclusive golf course in central Florida, and I was shocked to learn what % of the people pay to join it, but golf there relatively rarely.

If they sold 250 a day at $40 a pop theres the 10k they assessed their members

Then you're eliminating a big part of the draw / market demo they're going for, the snooty new money crowd.

 

[snoseek]

Moving forward I feel like private clubs are on a slow but steady decline here in the U.S. and while the best of the best will remain its only a matter of time for most of them. This is coming from someone that has worked several private clubs in the past couple decades and could see an overall noticeable change so got out. genX and millennials just aren't all that interested like boomers were and the disposable income just isn't there for as many. Haystack isn't a mountain that sets itself apart enough. Maybe if it was somewhere further north that is truly compelling as a skier/boarder that would change things.

It would be a nice little addition to mountain snows acres as it was before but never lived to its potential. Either way private or not I just assume the place remain open as vacant ski areas sorta blow.

 

[drjeff]

Barnes claims that there are 664 members, so if they all hand him $10k, he will have an infusion of $6.64 million.

It also stated in the article that not all membership classes were subject to the assessment. They sold some 1 yr trial memberships last spring that aren't subject to the assessment, as well as from what my member friend told me last weekend that some of the what in essence are "buy a seat on the board of directors" memberships aren't subject to the assessment either. My friend also wasn't sure if those relatively new members, who paid a much higher initial fee within the last year, were or weren't going to be subject to the assessment. That likely accounts for the difference in the projected capital raised

 

[x10003q]

It also stated in the article that not all membership classes were subject to the assessment. They sold some 1 yr trial memberships last spring that aren't subject to the assessment, as well as from what my member friend told me last weekend that some of the what in essence are "buy a seat on the board of directors" memberships aren't subject to the assessment either. My friend also wasn't sure if those relatively new members, who paid a much higher initial fee within the last year, were or weren't going to be subject to the assessment. That likely accounts for the difference in the projected capital raised

Thanks for the clarification. I hope it works. You never want to see ski areas close. I have had some fun days at Haystack, but I could never make it my primary weekend area. Having Mt Snow down the road helps fulfill the need for some bigger skiing and it also will maintain RE values if the place does close.

 

[JimG.]

As I said before, they put a bubble 6 in, which they acknowledge is way more capacity than they need, because their members wanted it, and it's a selling point as well. As I recall, one of their ads talked about the ability to get 35 runs in on any given day. 6 minute lift rides with probably not more than a 2 to 4 chair wait on a holiday weekend Saturday certainly has some appeal to those willing to pony up the coin to do so....

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Then nobody should have any issues ponying up $10,000 each for the current $5 million shortfall.

If that is the case, this is really a non-issue.

 

[VTKilarney]

I think that the best idea is to have a club like Bretton Woods has. There is so much less risk going that route. Yes, the trails are crowded, but you get a private lodge and line skipping privileges.

 

[drjeff]

I think that the best idea is to have a club like Bretton Woods has. There is so much less risk going that route. Yes, the trails are crowded, but you get a private lodge and line skipping privileges.

Stratton has the same type of thing near the gondola base...

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[Jully]

Stratton has the same type of thing near the gondola base...

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Anything ever happen at Mt. Snow with using the Quad as an exclusive members' only lift?

 

[mriceyman]

That's what they charge each member. Not the total.

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I was saying if they did that each day throughout the winter whAt it could add up to


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[drjeff]

Anything ever happen at Mt. Snow with using the Quad as an exclusive members' only lift?

As far as I know, that idea never made it past the potential idea stage, since if I recall the time it got brought up at a passholders meeting, paying extra to ride the grand summit out in the cold and wind, even with little to no lines, just wasn't going to cut it over the comfort of the Bluebird.

In addition, on busy days, having the extra capacity of the Grand Summit out of the base area is needed for sure!

The closest potential idea that I could possibly see happening at some point in the future if/when they do a wholesale redevelopment of the main and Sundance base areas, is in the master plan, there is some reference to a members only club/ lodge. Who knows if it will ever happen....

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[jaytrem]

Yeah, I seem to recall the idea being universally bashed on the passholders forum.

 

[Euler]

this

Jeff,


That's a lot different than dumping $6.9M on new toys and saying whoops, we can't pay our taxes or vendors and BTW we don't have cash reserves to operate. That's gross mismanagement.

 

[mikec142]

If you are shelling out $ to join a private club, you are going to have certain expectations of services and amenities. Its a chicken or the egg thing. Which comes first the high end infrastructure or the members?

One can reasonably argue, they shouldn't spend more than they have. But that's a cash flow thing and from what I gather, the spending was done with the idea of increasing cash flow. Seems like that process has been slower than anticipated. I'm sure they didn't go into this with the hopes of running into cash flow issues.

I hope that they are successful.

 

[Jully]

If you are shelling out $ to join a private club, you are going to have certain expectations of services and amenities. Its a chicken or the egg thing. Which comes first the high end infrastructure or the members?

One can reasonably argue, they shouldn't spend more than they have. But that's a cash flow thing and from what I gather, the spending was done with the idea of increasing cash flow. Seems like that process has been slower than anticipated. I'm sure they didn't go into this with the hopes of running into cash flow issues.

I hope that they are successful.

Agree with you here. I'm honestly surprised Barnes got people to sign up WITHOUT a high speed lift for the first few years!

 

[BenedictGomez]

This thread has me pondering just what the size of the, "east coast, rich, but not very serious skier" market it.