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Mittersill Expansion Map

Puck it

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Skiberg (or anyone),
Do you know the source of this map? I see where Puckit got it from, but presumably (hopefully) that's not the original source. I couldn't find the info on Cannon's "Mittersill Expansion" page nor on FSC's page. The only other place I found it was on Snowjournal where Threecy/Rocket21 did his 'ol self-reference thing but never revealed it's original source (though he does call it "official"). If there is a report that accompanies this map it would be worth reading. We might be able to have a more informed discussion about the plan.

I assumed everyone would see it was from threecy. I could not find it any other place either. May be he created it from the info given.
 

SIKSKIER

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With all due respect to riv,who had much love as did I for the closed Mittersill,the proposed widening of slopes and trails still leaves the mt probably 30% less cleared than at its peak.I can understand the resistence to bring part of the original terrain back but really folks,do you believe it is better to let a lost ski area grow back and not be skiable at all.Cannon will never be allowed to clear any more than was cleared in the past.Not sure whats so wrong with that looking at the large picture.Would those of us that enjoyed the overgrown Mittersill like to see it stay like it was a few years ago?Sure but thats not reality.I say much better to see that ski area revived than than to see it end up like all the other lost areas.fwiw the cleared slope proposed is pretty much how it looked 20 years ago.
 

Puck it

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Why is the t-bar load station there? It should be lower down the trail to utilize the whole run and not make an uphill slog to get to it.
 

Smellytele

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The question I have is - How do I get back to the lift if they are racing in the middle and I am skiing on the right side of the mountain below the top of the proposed t-bar?
 

Puck it

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The question I have is - How do I get back to the lift if they are racing in the middle and I am skiing on the right side of the mountain below the top of the proposed t-bar?


good point. And would be able to ride the t-bar?
 

LiquidFeet

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The question I have is - How do I get back to the lift if they are racing in the middle and I am skiing on the right side of the mountain below the top of the proposed t-bar?

How about getting back to Cannon? There's a narrow cut-back that takes you over to the Tuckerbrook area from under the double. But it crosses Barron's. If they are having a race on Barrons, that might be a problem. It could close the whole Mittersill area, yes?
 

from_the_NEK

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That T-bar alignment is actually very similar to Burke's Poma lift alignment on the left side of its slalom slope and with an uphill slog to get to the base terminal. Maybe they only want racers on it who "need" it to bother accessing the lift and slalom slope?
The alignment of the old t-bar cuts right across the upper 1/3rd of the widened slope.

Plan overlaid in Google Earth:

Mittersillfromthebottom.jpg


Mittersill_above.jpg


Mittersillface.jpg
 

Puck it

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How about getting back to Cannon? There's a narrow cut-back that takes you over to the Tuckerbrook area from under the double. But it crosses Barron's. If they are having a race on Barrons, that might be a problem. It could close the whole Mittersill area, yes?


That little chute if it is the one that I am thinking fills in nice and has a good pitch. Very tight. That will be loss. I really see nothing good out of this but the snowmaking near the bottom of the lift where their is an issue.
 

AdironRider

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The only reason people care about Mittersill getting some cutting is their own selfishness. They liked the place when it was more to themselves, which is fine, I can understand that, but to say its a travesty and wax poetic like Riv is just coating over the true intentions, which is he wanted to keep it to himself.

This is nothing but good for Cannon. End of the day, any ski area is going to take 3 mill in capital when all they have to do is maintain it moving forward. Its not like they werent running groomers, patrol and the lift over there already as it is.
 

LiquidFeet

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Has anybody mentioned yet that two trails half way down Mittersill, one directly under the double and another one running parallel to it, are going to be joined into one wide trail? These two trails are not related to the racing program, so why are the trees between them going to be leveled?
 

Puck it

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The only reason people care about Mittersill getting some cutting is their own selfishness. They liked the place when it was more to themselves, which is fine, I can understand that, but to say its a travesty and wax poetic like Riv is just coating over the true intentions, which is he wanted to keep it to himself.

This is nothing but good for Cannon. End of the day, any ski area is going to take 3 mill in capital when all they have to do is maintain it moving forward. Its not like they werent running groomers, patrol and the lift over there already as it is.

Not selfishness at all. Look at where they race now. Gary's. They use half the slope and the other half is open. Middle Ravine down to Turnpike. Middle Ravine is closed fully but the side of Turnpike remains open. These closures really do not affect the flow of the mountain. However, put a race on Baron's and Mitty is essentially isolated. A big pain in the ass if the conditions are good over there. I do not want to sit behind a rope and wait for them to let me cross the race trail.
 

Puck it

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Has anybody mentioned yet that two trails half way down Mittersill, one directly under the double and another one running parallel to it, are going to be joined into one wide trail? These two trails are not related to the racing program, so why are the trees between them going to be leveled?


Another good point that I missed. Also the return trail mentioned above does not need to be cut. There is all ready a return trail down lower back to Tuckerbrook. There is a sign currently under the double stating that. This is old layout seems not well thought out. Did this engineering firm even go up to the trials and look?
 

Puck it

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So how is that statement not a me first thing?
Agreed it is a me first thing and for every season pass holder and day ticket buyer too!! Look at the layout, it makes no sense to me. A race on Baron's shuts down the whole trail pod during training even.
 

AdironRider

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Agreed it is a me first thing and for every season pass holder and day ticket buyer too!! Look at the layout, it makes no sense to me. A race on Baron's shuts down the whole trail pod during training even.


No it doesnt and it wont. Gore runs racing pretty much right down the middle of the mountain on Twister, it is not that big of a deal.

While I dont own a season pass currently, I did for over a decade, if I was still a regular this would be a huge win. Do you really think racers are going to ruin the trees over there? Do you not remember last year when it was open for all of 5 days? These improvements will force Mittersill to effectively become one with Cannon operations wise. No longer will it be an afterthought.
 

Puck it

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No it doesnt and it wont. Gore runs racing pretty much right down the middle of the mountain on Twister, it is not that big of a deal.

While I dont own a season pass currently, I did for over a decade, if I was still a regular this would be a huge win. Do you really think racers are going to ruin the trees over there? Do you not remember last year when it was open for all of 5 days? These improvements will force Mittersill to effectively become one with Cannon operations wise. No longer will it be an afterthought.


So how does Gore handle the flow of skiers across a racing trail? Explain.

And I do remember when it was open last year, I have the core shots to show for it, but the proposed benefits would not help that for me at least. It is only two trails with snowmaking on them. Skyline would be nice as would Baron's but that Boulevard down low looks liek something ASC would cut. Look, I am all for the racer's, but I think there could be a better lay out and solution to utilize that lift.
 

AdironRider

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Barons is not going to become Cannonball. This is not an ASC type situation. You need to stop being rediculous and see this as more than a 12 year old only child would.

Gore runs it just like you would expect, you can cross at certain times. I think you wait like 30 seconds.

You seriously think that having it be the racing area is not going to have Mittersill skiable more often? Take the blinders off bro.
 

Puck it

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Barons is not going to become Cannonball. This is not an ASC type situation. You need to stop being rediculous and see this as more than a 12 year old only child would.

Gore runs it just like you would expect, you can cross at certain times. I think you wait like 30 seconds.

You seriously think that having it be the racing area is not going to have Mittersill skiable more often? Take the blinders off bro.

I was not talking about Baron's. I was talking about the lower Taft Slope.

There are glades (The Birches) in between the lift and Baron's that would become the problem. There are multiple crossings that would need to be monitored. There are at least four that I recall.

I do not deny that the lift will run more with snowmaking for two runs.

Not a 12 yr. old mentality, it is my observations from the plan and opinions. I think I have been backed by a couple of people on this though.

BTW, You are an angry elf today.
 

SIKSKIER

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I'm not sure what the big issue is with getting across a race trail.It's done all the time.Crossing points have somebody stationed there to hold skiers up only until the racer passes and then are allowed to cross.Cannon has been doing this on Ravine for years just below the Cannonball summit chair to cross over to spooky.And really,that "boulevard" was there many moons ago people.Am I happy about it,not really but the only reason there is what looks like 2 trails there now is that is grew back in,like almost 1/2 the open terrain that existed back in the 70's.
 
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AdironRider

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Im just toeing the line on typical AZ posturing. You should know that about me by now.

For Riv to come on here and call it a travesty is a joke, I called him on it. No anger involved.
 
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