Most Overrated and Underrated Ski Resorts in the east

[KustyTheKlown]

i know and have skied most of those zones, but i'd be happy to receive your map by PM if you dont mind

DHS shared some sweet stowe intel via PM to me a few years back which is what allowed me to branch out a bit without a guide. thanks for that bud

 

[kingslug]

I think I'll look into a guide. Stowe Adventure Guides looks promising. I really need to get better in the woods. Eastern woods..I seem to do well everywhere else in the trees.

 

[bdfreetuna]

It's not a big deal to me as the side country at Stowe is a tracked out open secret anyway but I can post a link to a map of all of Stowe's well known side country if it's ok with the administrators here. So many people know about those areas already that it's kind of ridiculous that the runs aren't just added to the official trail map.

Tony

Not to diss DHS, he and some others prefer the sidecountry remain locals-only or for those who figure it out on their own.

Personally never felt that way. Powder days are powder days, that's the great equalizer. Stowe has so many well-known (off map) trails, trees, chutes, riverbeds and stashes it's unreal.

I understand why Stowe/VAIL wouldn't want to add these to a super high detail version of their trail map, calling them either <><> or <><><> runs. But let's be real, there are signs in the woods letting you know where some of these things are. It's not much of a secret and my feeling is, if anyone dedicates enough of their life to waste time on AlpineZone, they should have access to the Treasure Maps.

As DHS stated there is no rule against this. Go for it. I think we should do this for literally every ski area. I'm happy to help crowd-source. I've posted photos of Tomba's Chute and Angel Food from last year, do you think I'm worried it would get skied out? It's already skied out :lol: ... unless it's a powder day, everyone knows this stuff already. Why should AlpineZone remain in the dark, I assume most people here like to ski and are good at it.

People are paranoid that someone is going to snowboard horizontally down their secret stash. We're talking Stowe here.... if you can't get a fresh line skiers left off the Gondola than it's your own fault.

Information age is here, time to evolve. To me it's not somehow superior to be expected to ask people physically on the mountain where the stashes are, and hope they tell you, instead of what should be the modern formula of expert skiers sharing this information freely. Again I don't think AlpineZone is populated by Jerrys.

BTW I think this would be a pretty popular idea having crowdsourced trailmaps organized. Might fit in better to the NortheastMountainSports format though.

 

[kendo]

Stowe - Underappreciated by some.

Have made Stowe my local mtn for the past 2 yrs with Epic. Will gladly drive from NJ for the 2100' TTB skiing on continual fall line slopes at Stowe. Usually stay at Spruce (non skier wife loves it) and ski Mon - Thurs, avoiding the crowds and getting to ski in near solitude. Love falling out of bed and onto the lifts each morning! Have come to really appreciate the Sensation quad to start or end the day. Never have waited for that chair and can get a lot of runs in a few hours. Haven't ventured too far off map and into the trees while skiing solo, but will follow the occasional locals that I meet on the lifts.

Only negative is Liftline snowmaking may be on full tilt Mon - Weds to recover from weekends, but there's enough options to avoid getting blasted on the FourRunner.

 

[BenedictGomez]

First time in my life I've ever heard Stowe's trail system called, "bland"; it would be my choice for #1 trail system in the east.

 

[deadheadskier]

Not to diss DHS, he and some others prefer the sidecountry remain locals-only or for those who figure it out on their own.

Personally never felt that way. Powder days are powder days, that's the great equalizer. Stowe has so many well-known (off map) trails, trees, chutes, riverbeds and stashes it's unreal.

I understand why Stowe/VAIL wouldn't want to add these to a super high detail version of their trail map, calling them either <><> or <><><> runs. But let's be real, there are signs in the woods letting you know where some of these things are. It's not much of a secret and my feeling is, if anyone dedicates enough of their life to waste time on AlpineZone, they should have access to the Treasure Maps.

As DHS stated there is no rule against this. Go for it. I think we should do this for literally every ski area. I'm happy to help crowd-source. I've posted photos of Tomba's Chute and Angel Food from last year, do you think I'm worried it would get skied out? It's already skied out [emoji38] ... unless it's a powder day, everyone knows this stuff already. Why should AlpineZone remain in the dark, I assume most people here like to ski and are good at it.

People are paranoid that someone is going to snowboard horizontally down their secret stash. We're talking Stowe here.... if you can't get a fresh line skiers left off the Gondola than it's your own fault.

Information age is here, time to evolve. To me it's not somehow superior to be expected to ask people physically on the mountain where the stashes are, and hope they tell you, instead of what should be the modern formula of expert skiers sharing this information freely. Again I don't think AlpineZone is populated by Jerrys.

BTW I think this would be a pretty popular idea having crowdsourced trailmaps organized. Might fit in better to the NortheastMountainSports format though.

what's the big deal with sharing it privately?

I view it this way. AZ is an online community. Those who participate and interact can share in a wealth of knowledge on this forum. I've done so privately numerous times with Stowe and Wildcat over the years. I do so in person where I ski as well. Chat me up on a chair or at the bar and I'll show you what I know


You are out of your f'n mind with the crowd sourced high resolution map. Putting stuff out in public on a forum or even worse, on an actual published map causes things to become tracked out faster in a big way. I moved to Stowe in 95. Back then the only trees on the map were Nose Dive woods and Tres Amigos. I skied there 100 days that season and through my own exploration found the vast majority of the goods. That's also how I found most of the trees at Wildcat before they got put on the map. Though at least Wildcat doesn't name them or mark the entrances.

Fast forward to 2003 I believe? Then some asshat in marketing at Stowe decided to put all of the in bounds locally developed trees on the map. I actually know him well and have shared beers and turns with him many times back in the day. Nice guy. He was tasked with growing the business at the mountain. He said people go elsewhere because the trail count of 48 makes it seem smaller than a place like Sunapee to the uninformed recreational skiers. Over night Stowe went from the great 48 to the comical 116 or whatever it is now. With that change now it all gets mostly tracked out the day of a storm. Back before then you could find a lot of untracked 3-4 days after the storm.

And truthfully it's not really about hording powder. It's about preserving the treasure hunting experience New England tree skiing used to be all about. Skiing along the trails and looking for openings that leads to new discoveries. Sometimes taking that risk has amazing payoffs. Other times you wind up in a dead end and having to bushwack out. I've had a ton of those over my skiing career. Spent sometimes up to two hours getting myself out of bad lines. You curse the whole way then laugh about it at the bar.

So, yes, I'm 100% against spoon feeding the masses beta. I feel that way about skiing the way some people feel about "participation trophies." Terrain knowledge is something you earn. You should learn it through exploration or befriending others; not via a spoon.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[raisingarizona]

I’d definitely agree that the spirit of adventure, exploration and discovery has somewhat vanished in today’s information overload society.

 

[GregoryIsaacs]

The same has happened with fishing as well (Cape Cod Canal & monster breeder bass). People cant seem to keep their mouth's/cameras shut

 

[BenedictGomez]

There's also those exercise & outdoors apps that track where you go that's let-the-cat-out-of-the-bag on previously, relatively unknown woods as well.

 

[WWF-VT]

First time in my life I've ever heard Stowe's trail system called, "bland"; it would be my choice for #1 trail system in the east.

Many of us remember when Stowe proudly only had 48 trails

 

[WWF-VT]

So, yes, I'm 100% against spoon feeding the masses beta. I feel that way about skiing the way some people feel about "participation trophies." Terrain knowledge is something you earn. You should learn it through exploration or befriending others; not via a spoon.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app

Who needs a map when this guy "Weatherman" has already provided pictures and all kinds of info in the "Beyond the trails" section of his Stowe guide:

 

[bdfreetuna]

what's the big deal with sharing it privately?

First thing that comes to mind is that it places you (or someone else with that knowledge and mindset) as the dispenser of knowledge to anyone you come across (in person or via internet) that you deem acceptable to share that knowledge with.

what's the big deal with sharing it privately?
I view it this way. AZ is an online community. Those who participate and interact can share in a wealth of knowledge on this forum. I've done so privately numerous times with Stowe and Wildcat over the years. I do so in person where I ski as well. Chat me up on a chair or at the bar and I'll show you what I know

OK but I go skiing to ski and I waste as little time at the bar as possible. Consider that not everyone approaches skiing or considers ski-culture in the exact same manner. Also consider that this is an exclusive attitude when we are hopefully trying to include more people to enjoy the sport. Maybe some newcomers are already bored with groomers and want to explore, but for whatever reason they haven't been invited to share the goods?

You are out of your f'n mind with the crowd sourced high resolution map. Putting stuff out in public on a forum or even worse, on an actual published map causes things to become tracked out faster in a big way. I moved to Stowe in 95. Back then the only trees on the map were Nose Dive woods and Tres Amigos. I skied there 100 days that season and through my own exploration found the vast majority of the goods. That's also how I found most of the trees at Wildcat before they got put on the map. Though at least Wildcat doesn't name them or mark the entrances.

I've seen plenty of guides on other forums. Wouldn't quite say "out of my mind" but yes it's debatable.

Fast forward to 2003 I believe? Then some asshat in marketing at Stowe decided to put all of the in bounds locally developed trees on the map. I actually know him well and have shared beers and turns with him many times back in the day. Nice guy. He was tasked with growing the business at the mountain. He said people go elsewhere because the trail count of 48 makes it seem smaller than a place like Sunapee to the recreational skiers. Over night Stowe went from the great 48 to the comical 116 or whatever it is now. With that change now it all gets mostly tracked out the day of a storm. Back before then you could find a lot of untracked 3-4 days after the storm.

Those trail counts made zero difference in how anybody skied or now skis the resort. I'm not saying put Angel Food on the map, but trying to say in 2019 it's still a hidden stash is kind of laughable in term of reality on the hill.

And truthfully it's not really about hording powder. It's about preserving the treasure hunting experience New England tree skiing used to be all about. Skiing along the trails and looking for openings that leads to new discoveries. Sometimes taking that risk has amazing payoffs. Other times you wind up in a dead end and having to bushwack out. I've had a ton of those over my skiing career. Spenot sometimes up to two hours getting myself out of bad lines. You curse the whole way then laugh about it at the bar.

You can access harder terrain from the lift at several resorts in New England compared to Stowe. Everyone knows there is stuff at Stowe above the lifts and between the trails. Most of it's not even that technical. This is what "advanced skiers" these days seek out. Who am I to say I deserve to ski it more than some asshole who drove 8 hours from New York City. What if I have to drive 3 hours and only get to ski there 2x a year? I don't get to know anything in that case?

So, yes, I'm 100% against spoon feeding the masses beta. I feel that way about skiing the way some people feel about "participation trophies." Terrain knowledge is something you earn. You should learn it through exploration or befriending others; not via a spoon.

I sort of agree if it's for safety sake and discouraging people from skiing thin terrain, etc. But I don't think AlpineZone audience is "the masses". We probably represent the relative "elite", at least those who can stomach participation on these forums.

 

[raisingarizona]

Many of us remember when Stowe proudly only had 48 trails

Yup. In the early 90’s they advertised that they didn’t need to play the upper-lower naming game to boost their trail count, they had quality too to bottom runs and it separated them from the competition. When I first saw that they changed their tune years ago I felt disappointed.

 

[deadheadskier]

Tuna you are flat out wrong about the between trail tree traffic once all of those trees were put on the map. I lived it. Night and day. Stowe was home for many years. After it happened the joke among locals in town went something like this

"What did you ski today?"

"I spent all day lapping fresh powder on Starr while everyone was busy tracking out the trees."

I don't think you'd find a single long time, regular Stowe skier who was/is happy about all the trees they put on the map.

And if you only ski there twice a year, then do some exploring. Have a sense of adventure. Don't expect people to spoon feed you where the good stuff is. I haven't skied Magic for probably 20 years. I intend to get there this winter and won't be seeking advice from anyone. I look forward to discovering what I can on my own.



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[bdfreetuna]

Tuna you are flat out wrong about the between trail tree traffic once all of those trees were put on the map. I lived it. Night and day. Stowe was home for many years. After it happened the joke among locals in town went something like this

"What did you ski today?"

"I spent all day lapping fresh powder on Starr while everyone was busy tracking out the trees."

I don't think you'd find a single long time, regular Stowe skier who was/is happy about all the trees they put on the map.

And if you only ski there twice a year, then do some exploring. Have a sense of adventure. Don't expect people to spoon feed you where the good stuff is. I haven't skied Magic for probably 20 years. I intend to get there this winter and won't be seeking advice from anyone. I look forward to discovering what I can on my own.



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I'm sure you're right on the aspects you reference. I have no first hand knowledge going back as far as you do.

Skied there a few times as a kid and then again pretty reliable on Ski Vermont passes (usually I got 2). So I'm probably at a dozen visits.

So that said believe me I explore and am usually on a mission when I head to certain ski areas, like Stowe, in general. I think I'm pretty proficient in terms of sidecountry exporation even as a mainly-solo skier. What you can learn on YouTube and by searching DuckDuckGo is pretty remarkable.

Anyway wish you and your family a Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[deadheadskier]

Happy Thanksgiving to you as well Tuna!

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[cdskier]

This one will piss people off, but I'd also put in Mt Ellen as overrated. Always seems much colder and icier than South. North Ridge is the only lift worth skiing over there. Sure, there's no crowds but that's the only thing that is better than South. Speaking of crowds, I've never waited in a line at Heaven's Gate or Valley House and both have tremendous terrain.

I ski both LP and ME quite a bit and never noticed the colder thing at all. Icier depends on the day and which way the wind is blowing (and which trails you hit). I've had times when LP was icy and ME was great and also vice versa. North Ridge also allows you to access the vast majority of the terrain at ME via a high speed lift (1700' of vertical). I think lapping that lift is something vastly underrated IMO.

As for never having waited on a line at HG...that's impressive but not at all the norm on a mid-winter weekend unless you're there first thing when it opens. If HG never had a line I'd have no problems skiing that quite a few runs.

 

[deadheadskier]

I think North Ridge is the best chair at Sugarbush. It accesses the most terrain variety over the longest, most consistent vertical of either North or South. You can find it all off that lift. Bumps, trees, classic old school trails, good cruisers.

Obviously other terrain pods have some very special terrain too, but when I skied SB frequently, North Ridge is where I'd almost always start my day lapping terrain before venturing elsewhere.

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[JimG.]

DHS shared some sweet stowe intel via PM to me a few years back which is what allowed me to branch out a bit without a guide. thanks for that bud

DHS did the same for me my last trip to Wildcat. Also much appreciated.

 

[snoseek]

Dhs showed me some super fun stuff at wildcat a few years back. Some of that stuff could get pretty crazy...I feel like its better to go into some of those woods with someone that knows the routes vs reading a map online somewhere.