Mountain Vertical updates - all New England ski areas

[Puck it]

You leave Greek Peak outta this....it's all about Sundown around these parts :razz:

I knew it. Size does matter.

 

[MV Frank]

nice lively discussion about this...everyone's thoughts (even if disagreeing) are good to hear - thanks. Hey even if I butt heads with some, its refreshing to do it with an analytical group able to actually make intelligent arguments (much more than can be said about other forums..)

There is a lot I want to weigh in on based on a lot of the discourse, but I'm in a rush right now to get out the door -- 4.5 hour drive to Jay Peak for 3 days (its going to dump snow tomorrow ) Maybe when I get back, if this thread is still active. In any case, hope you guys can get up there to the pow...peace.

 

[Puck it]

Wonder how much vertical he will get in the drive?

 

[Black Phantom]

You leave Greek Peak outta this....it's all about Sundown around these parts :razz:

 

[Black Phantom]

nice lively discussion about this...everyone's thoughts (even if disagreeing) are good to hear - thanks. Hey even if I butt heads with some, its refreshing to do it with an analytical group able to actually make intelligent arguments (much more than can be said about other forums..)

There is a lot I want to weigh in on based on a lot of the discourse, but I'm in a rush right now to get out the door -- 4.5 hour drive to Jay Peak for 3 days (its going to dump snow tomorrow ) Maybe when I get back, if this thread is still active. In any case, hope you guys can get up there to the pow...peace.

Take some lessons while you are up there little man. It will do you good.

 

[jaywbigred]

Take some lessons while you are up there little man. It will do you good.

Pretty cool tough guy!!

 

[Black Phantom]

Pretty cool tough guy!!

This little fellow will be well served by the instruction at JP. He will then truly discover the fall line.

 

[billski]

Kinda hard to get Yawgoo, Blue Hills, Ward, Bradford wrong. Now tell me why did he single out MRG as only allowing skiers. Does that affect the vertical.

At what vertical does this list begin to become controversial - around Gunstock?

Now, Tony Crocker over at firsttracks used to post quite an analysis of ski areas, where he focused on ski-able vertical, counting top of lift, not mountain summit, etc. I guess he tore it down. I always wondered what Tony thought of this new site.

I think I'll just go ski and leave this discussion for the summertime when all I can do is perspire and dream.

Git it done!

 

[St. Bear]

This little fellow will be well served by the instruction at JP. He will then truly discover the fall line.

Is that from the Tough Mudder? I'm doing it in April.

 

[billski]

I prefer Waffle Cabin, myself.

If I recall right, someone sued over this name and they had to change.

 

[riverc0il]

But I think both Frank and Riverc0il are making the same mistake on Saddleback. I agree with Frank's number from the top of the summit quad (El. 4020, 100 feet below the true summit) to the base lodge. For the overall vertical, I'm guessing you're both looking at Google Earth. It shows the old T-bar novice area below the base lodge. I can't find a map which shows the bottom of the present South Branch quad, but Skilifts.org lists its length as 2760 and its vertical as 346. That's vertical below the base lodge. The base lodge is about 2460 so the lowest elevation is about 2120. If you allow them the 100 hike-up feet to the summit, they get the 2000. I'd call that an acceptable stretch, not a lie.

I did reference Google Maps terrain. Obviously not the most accurate topo. But even if you took the summit reading down to below the beginner area, it was barely 1800ish as I recall. Could just be that Google Maps Terrain feature is really just that far off. Let's hear from someone with a USGS reading.

 

[Hockley Valley]

About Killington-

Even if you argue and say the route to the bottom doesn't count(which it totally should)
Isn't the Skyeship HSQ 1800 vertical? from skye peak which is about 3800 to the base of bear which is around 2000

 

[billski]

I did reference Google Maps terrain. Obviously not the most accurate topo. But even if you took the summit reading down to below the beginner area, it was barely 1800ish as I recall. Could just be that Google Maps Terrain feature is really just that far off. Let's hear from someone with a USGS reading.

OK kids, here is the USGS quad topo for Saddleback.

According to my GPS software which is loaded with USGS maps we have:
Base(end of road) 2493
Summit 4120
Delta: 1627
and 200 more feet to the base of the beginner lift and bottom-most 2nd road.
total delta: 1827 feet


You guys duke it out and call me in the morning; I'm going to bed.
Remember, these maps are dated and probably don't reflect the current state of all lifts or trails.

Let me know if you want any other topos.

 

[tjf67]

Take some lessons while you are up there little man. It will do you good.

Really? Why

 

[threecy]

About Killington-

Even if you argue and say the route to the bottom doesn't count(which it totally should)
Isn't the Skyeship HSQ 1800 vertical? from skye peak which is about 3800 to the base of bear which is around 2000

Skye Peak Express is listed as 1,525'

I think, aside from bias, one of the reasons Killington is getting called out with this project is that a sacrificial, high profile area needed to be 'cut down to size' to make a splash.

 

[EPB]

I think, aside from bias, one of the reasons Killington is getting called out with this project is that a sacrificial, high profile area needed to be 'cut down to size' to make a splash.

Potentially. Sensationalism tends to grab the reader's attention. Along the same vein, I was also very surprised to see that Sunday River was listed at 1728 feet. The measurement appears to be form the summit of Locke Mountain to the base of White Cap. You'd figure by that logic that Killington could be measured at least from the summit of Killington Peak to the base of Snowshead/Rams Head.

 

[oakapple]

Potentially. Sensationalism tends to grab the reader's attention. Along the same vein, I was also very surprised to see that Sunday River was listed at 1728 feet. The measurement appears to be form the summit of Locke Mountain to the base of White Cap. You'd figure by that logic that Killington could be measured at least from the summit of Killington Peak to the base of Snowshead/Rams Head.

Frank is measuring what he judges to be a "continuous fall line." Although there is a single run (Great Northern) that goes from Killington Peak to Ramshead base, it's a Frankenstein trail, having been assembled from various little bits, with a few nearly flat sections along the way. Frank's judgment is that "real skiers" would never do that, which probably comes as a surprise to the crowds you see on Great Northern. Beginners and low intermediates actually derive quite a bit of enjoyment from skiing that route, but to Frank those people aren't real skiers.

 

[EPB]

Frank is measuring what he judges to be a "continuous fall line." Although there is a single run (Great Northern) that goes from Killington Peak to Ramshead base, it's a Frankenstein trail, having been assembled from various little bits, with a few nearly flat sections along the way. Frank's judgment is that "real skiers" would never do that, which probably comes as a surprise to the crowds you see on Great Northern. Beginners and low intermediates actually derive quite a bit of enjoyment from skiing that route, but to Frank those people aren't real skiers.

I overlooked the "continuous fall line" aspect of the measurements for sure.

I just was thinking that most Sunday River skiers wouldn't go all the way down to the White Cap base. Instead, they would head over to the White Heat quad that begins much higher on the mountain. Getting trapped down at the bottom of White Cap is not fun. Beginner-esque terrain and not much of a run to get back to higher lifts isn't particularly appealing.

 

[threecy]

One thing is for sure: MVFrank != HighwayStar

 

[jaywbigred]

Frank is measuring what he judges to be a "continuous fall line." Although there is a single run (Great Northern) that goes from Killington Peak to Ramshead base, it's a Frankenstein trail, having been assembled from various little bits, with a few nearly flat sections along the way. Frank's judgment is that "real skiers" would never do that, which probably comes as a surprise to the crowds you see on Great Northern. Beginners and low intermediates actually derive quite a bit of enjoyment from skiing that route, but to Frank those people aren't real skiers.

What percentage of beginners and low intermediates care about a stat like total vert? Maybe what Frank is trying to do, without realize it, is create a meaningful vert stat for people who actually care about things like vert stats...who, I'd bet are high intermediates or better a vast majority of the time. In other words, I'd be surprised if too many of the people that make up the "crowds" on Great Northern gave a darn about total vert advertisements (or even knew what total vert was).