Mtn Creek Officially Announces South/Bear Parkification

[Rob A]

http://www.mountaincreek.com/south/index.htm

From the site:
Mountain Creek South
Double-sized, double-stuffed terrain parks. South and Bear Peaks have been turned into the biggest, funnest park in the East! 60 acres of progressive freestlye terrain for all skill levels; more small stuff, more big stuff, new stuff, old stuff, snow stuff, metal stuff…just more stuff, including our first ever jump line.
FREE Board Check at South. Free board check. If you missed it, check your board & skis for FREE at South!
Snow. Lights. Speed. South IS the snowmaking powerhouse. With night lighting and 2 dedicated high-speed quads…you’re gonna be begging for a break.
Safety is the word. Keeping everyone out of the sled and on the snow is our job. That means a little ‘classroom’ education is in order for everyone on the hill. A few minutes of focus for a lifetime of pleasure…and the only cost is your attention…it’s FREE!
The lodge gets a facelift and vibe adjustment.
Hang tight for a full schedule of excellent events, parties and shindigs.

And in Resort-wide news….
The ‘Backside’ is back. 5 ‘new’ intermediate trails return for great cruising: Great Northern, Khyber, Indian and Independence Pass and Half-Moon.
FREE Board & Ski check for everyone!
The modern age of scanning arrives
NJ’s Racing legacy moves front & center on Zero-G. Racing action midweek evenings and weekend mornings…plus Nastar for the racer in everyone.
$500k in snowmaking improvements.
We can move mountains, but we can’t move a pipe. The famed Superpipe stays put at Vernon this season, but it’s worth the trip for a change of scenery.
An all-mountain attitude adjustment. Check out the changes this season.

New South side

Vernon/Granite

Wow, wow, wow, what a f-ing disgrace and they seem proud of themselves! Now it has been officially announced that we have lost South and Bear, but it seems now it gets WORSE. Zero G AND Lower Eagle are now a "race zone" which appears will be closed on WEEKEND MORNINGS and WEEKDAY NIGHTS for racing! I don't know about you, but at Creek I ski 1-2 nights during the wk, and one day on the weekend in the morning. With South gone, I will only be skiing Eagle Hunt/Lower Eagle, Zero G, Pipeline, and Devil's Bit and occasionally the Great Northern Area. Now with this racing crap, Zero G and Lower Eagle will be closed all the time, this just makes the situation 10x worse. I really, really can't stand creek right now. First they take away half the resort which skiers loved, now they take away the only trails worth skiing at Vernon too!

 

[millerm277]

I am not returning. End of story.


I'm not going to bother bitching about it, because there are so many things that would have to be changed in order to make it worth skiing, that it's less likely than the Pico interconnect happening.

If you do have to ski there for whatever reason, I doubt South will really turn into parks very well, and Granite is still fine. Also, if you ever got some natural snow, there are a few cuts on Bear Peak that would be nice to ski, that are quite obvious. (An old liftline, a powerline, and what I think is an abandoned trail).

 

[jarrodski]

I for one totally agree with what they are doing. They are at the forefront of progression for East Coast Terrain Park skiing and Snowboarding. They have a very short vertical rise, and want to maximize their attractiveness to the paying public. By doing this, they are able to market to their core customer, which happens to be a New Jersey spoiled rich kid snowboarder who just barely got their license and doesn't have the cash to make it up north to a more legitimate vertical drop.

Props to the Creek.

By the way, the MTB scene there is ablast, and if there's any two wheeling free ride freeks out there, drop a line.

 

[Rob A]

I for one totally agree with what they are doing. They are at the forefront of progression for East Coast Terrain Park skiing and Snowboarding. They have a very short vertical rise, and want to maximize their attractiveness to the paying public. By doing this, they are able to market to their core customer, which happens to be a New Jersey spoiled rich kid snowboarder who just barely got their license and doesn't have the cash to make it up north to a more legitimate vertical drop.

Props to the Creek.

By the way, the MTB scene there is ablast, and if there's any two wheeling free ride freeks out there, drop a line.

I couldn't disagree with you more. I'm sick of them only trying to attract more park rats, and now giving them all of South and Bear! The 5 trails on Vernon I could live with, but this has gone too far. It was working the way it was, why make it worse by giving them more terrain that skiers enjoyed for decades? And the combination of the Racing Program moving to Zero G (even more idiotic), this is horrible. Maybe I should get a season pass to Hidden Valley this season...

Mtn Creek, for the skier, really is only Granite Peak now. Zero G and Lower Eagle are now race zones, closing them to the public all the time. The only trails worth skiing now on Vernon are the Great Northern Area and Eagle Hunt (which is worthless without Lower Eagle). And South and Bear has been completely ruined. We have 1 peak left, this saddens me. And although Granite has by far the best terrain, Pipeline And Devil's Bit just aren't open often enough.

 

[JimG.]

I couldn't disagree with you more. I'm sick of them only trying to attract more park rats, and now giving them all of South and Bear! The 5 trails on Vernon I could live with, but this has gone too far. It was working the way it was, why make it worse by giving them more terrain that skiers enjoyed for decades? And the combination of the Racing Program moving to Zero G (even more idiotic), this is horrible. Maybe I should get a season pass to Hidden Valley this season...

Mtn Creek, for the skier, really is only Granite Peak now. Zero G and Lower Eagle are now race zones, closing them to the public all the time. The only trails worth skiing now on Vernon are the Great Northern Area and Eagle Hunt (which is worthless without Lower Eagle). And South and Bear has been completely ruined. We have 1 peak left, this saddens me. And although Granite has by far the best terrain, Pipeline And Devil's Bit just aren't open often enough.

I sympathize with you Rob A, I really do.

But to be true to my famous pot stirring reputation, I have to agree with ishovelsnow, certainly from a business perspective. They're catering to their biggest customer group. Perhaps they aspire to being the first "snowboarder only" hill.

 

[jarrodski]

.... for the skier....

I ski

 

[Rob A]

I ski

I never said you didn't.

 

[jarrodski]

isn't this all skiing? It's a different discipline sure, but at the end of the day, skiing just the same.

 

[skier90]

isn't this all skiing?

This would also appliy to the free rideing snowboarders who could care less about being in a park all day. M.C has to have a huge customor base and I cant belive that most of that base is park goeing snowboarders. Whats the nearst resort that comes close to M.C vertical and skiable acers?

 

[millerm277]

isn't this all skiing? It's a different discipline sure, but at the end of the day, skiing just the same.

Technically, sure. However, it's going to make the experience for skiers horrible, and I don't really see the point of adding all these parks, when most of the time last year at MC, the parks weren't even that crowded.

 

[JimG.]

Technically, sure. However, it's going to make the experience for skiers horrible, and I don't really see the point of adding all these parks, when most of the time last year at MC, the parks weren't even that crowded.

Again, skiing taken from your perspective. There are ALOT of teen skiers who spend all day with their buddies in the park. Kids on park/pipe skis or blades. I've asked and they prefer this setup because they can hang out with their other skiing buddies and snowboard friends as well. There is no war between teen snowboarders/skiers. They all get along.

That crap is for skiers/boarders who are 35 or older and who remember a different world of skiing in the 80's and 90's.

Notice I didn't say old school because that's from the mid-70's back.

 

[Rob A]

isn't this all skiing? It's a different discipline sure, but at the end of the day, skiing just the same.

Unfortunately no, not all skiing is the same. I will never again be able to carve from one side of the trail to the other on any runs on bear or south. When I attempt to do so, there will be boarders sitting across the trail, lining up for jumps, rails/jumps in my way, etc.

 

[Rob A]

Again, skiing taken from your perspective. There are ALOT of teen skiers who spend all day with their buddies in the park. Kids on park/pipe skis or blades. I've asked and they prefer this setup because they can hang out with their other skiing buddies and snowboard friends as well. There is no war between teen snowboarders/skiers. They all get along.

That crap is for skiers/boarders who are 35 or older and who remember a different world of skiing in the 80's and 90's.

Notice I didn't say old school because that's from the mid-70's back.

This may shock you, but there ARE feuds between TEEN skiers and TEEN snowboarders. I know this because I'm 16 (HS junior) and a traditional skier. I live to carve, bang through the moguls, and for the thrill of the trail. I grew up on "traditional" skiing and have no interest in parks/jumps/rails, and I have a pack of close friends that all ski and feel the same way (the park terrain is useless). I can't tell you the arguments I have gotten into with other people I know who board over this, so the feuds are mostly skier vs. snowboarder. The skiers don't have to be 35+ yrs old.

 

[Dr Skimeister]

This would also appliy to the free rideing snowboarders who could care less about being in a park all day. M.C has to have a huge customor base and I cant belive that most of that base is park goeing snowboarders. Whats the nearst resort that comes close to M.C vertical and skiable acers?

I think it's a very safe assumption that management at Mountain Creek did their "dollars and cents" homework before the decision was made to convert South to the park-haven that they're trying to sell to their clientele. My observation is that the biggest majority of Creek's customers are younger than 30 years old, day-tripping and for the most part casual snow-sport participants. MC has potentially thousands and thousands of people that fit this demographic within 2 hours of their property, and they appear to be making a smart business decision to make the experience as good for them as possible.

An advantage that Creek has (and a disadvantage that non-park using patrons have) is that they have little-to-no competition in their immediate marketplace. As Hidden Valley is unlikely to ever compete with MC, if it even ever opens again, the next closest mountain is Mt. Peter outside of Warwick, NY. A nice place to take a 5 year old for his/her first couple of times on the snow, but nothing much to entertain anyone who skis/rides with any regularity.

One question I have about MC's new look this season is how will they acomodate the herds of schoolbus patrons that take the place over every evening. Bus parking is all at the Vernon base area. Assuming that the majority of the middle school/high school kids want to "hit the parks", and remembering (maybe not correctly though) that the long,flat trail that runs from the top of the old North peak to South isn't open at night, how will these kids get their fix?

 

[JimG.]

This may shock you, but there ARE feuds between TEEN skiers and TEEN snowboarders. I know this because I'm 16 (HS junior) and a traditional skier. I live to carve, bang through the moguls, and for the thrill of the trail. I grew up on "traditional" skiing and have no interest in parks/jumps/rails, and I have a pack of close friends that all ski and feel the same way (the park terrain is useless). I can't tell you the arguments I have gotten into with other people I know who board over this, so the feuds are mostly skier vs. snowboarder. The skiers don't have to be 35+ yrs old.

Not much shocks me...sure there are going to be disagreements.

I think you missed my point a bit...I'm sure freeride skiers such as yourself don't care for the snowboard crowd all that much. But that's more a matter of sliding tool preference and terrain choice that anything else. Case in point, you're not happy with snowboarders because MC is turning alot of the hill into "useless" terrain as you call it. And I'm more or less with you on that.

Let me note that I've never had issues with snowboarders or them having a place of their own on the hill. Slide and let slide. I've encountered as many asshole skiers as snowboarders.

I think the older crowd has a different issue regarding skier/snowboarder conflicts...I'm 49 and snowboarding itself was a change that alot of skiers didn't accept at all...look at the snowboard bans at ski areas in those early days of snowboarding. That created an elitist image of skiers that snowboarders didn't like. When they got their freedom to board at resorts, they took every chance to rub the fact that they were different in skier's faces. Probably not deliberate, but skiers made them unwelcomed from the start. So they enhanced and differentiated themselves from skiers. Which created a gap. Then, throw in that most young people seem to gravitate to snowboards and you have a generational misunderstanding. Old farts on skis wanted respect because they were first and snowboarders aren't going to play that because they were treated like crap at the start. That's where all the sitting in bad places and stuff like that came from; all their saying is "F you, you didn't want me from the start so I'm going to play by my own rules now".

If I were treated that way I'd probably act the same.

 

[Greg]

I think part of what defines a well-run ski area is balance; i.e. offering terrain for every sliding tool preference, age and ability. Jarrod - you guys at Sundown do a good job with the limited terrain you have. However, perhaps MC took a good long look at market demand and found they're largest clientèle are the newschoolers. At least I hope this is what they've done before proceeding in this way. Truly does suck for the freeskiers though especially since MC is sort of geographically challenged with not many other options nearby. Sure, if Sundown ditched the bump approach and just added more rails and other terrain element to Nor'easter, I'd be pissed, but at least I have other night skiing options nearby.

 

[jarrodski]

busiest times for terrain parks - Mon-Fri from 3pm-7pm Sat 11am-4pm Sun 10am-5pm

Average demographic - ANYONE under 25

age group who dictates the family getaway for middle and upper middle class - teens

fastest growing segment in a ski shop - twin tip skis

strongest segment in a ski shop - twin tip skis


Who's spending the money now? who's going to be spending money in 10 years?

Mountain Creek is on point here.

Adapt or expire... I'd say get in that mini-park and enjoy. It's all skiing, it's all fun

 

[millerm277]

Again, skiing taken from your perspective. There are ALOT of teen skiers who spend all day with their buddies in the park. Kids on park/pipe skis or blades. I've asked and they prefer this setup because they can hang out with their other skiing buddies and snowboard friends as well. There is no war between teen snowboarders/skiers. They all get along.

Well, you seem to be forgetting that I'm 15....

My point is that, outside of the parks, there are/were tons of people on the trails as well, and a much higher percentage of them are skiers. Most skiers don't like skiing Vernon at all because the "gondi" is a huge hassle for skiers. They already had the park rat crowd locked up in the NYC area, I don't think having more parks is going to draw that many people, but I do think it's going to make a lot of their former non-park skiing/riding crowd leave.

More importantly, the parks were not very crowded at all last year, so I don't understand why they are expanding the terrain devoted to parks without the demand being there for it.

 

[jarrodski]

I'm 15....

I promise that for your age group you are the minority

 

[JimG.]

Well, you seem to be forgetting that I'm 15....

My point is that, outside of the parks, there are/were tons of people on the trails as well, and a much higher percentage of them are skiers. Most skiers don't like skiing Vernon at all because the "gondi" is a huge hassle for skiers. They already had the park rat crowd locked up in the NYC area, I don't think having more parks is going to draw that many people, but I do think it's going to make a lot of their former non-park skiing/riding crowd leave.

More importantly, the parks were not very crowded at all last year, so I don't understand why they are expanding the terrain devoted to parks without the demand being there for it.

I'm not sure I ever knew you were...one of the huge benefits of the internet. I don't know MC much at all...I think I skied there once as a kid with my parents when it was Great Gorge. I understand why you guys are upset and since I'm a freeskier, I would be too if it was my main hill.

BUT......

the people who own it see something they want to build on. MC does not have a big name in the ski industry...but it sure does in the snowboard/park skier community. As much as it sucks for skiers, they think they gain more going in that direction. I'm not trying to be mean, but they probably don't care if skiers leave.