Nobody stops to help dying man

[John84]

Saw this on TGR. Definitely says something about people.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/everest-climber-passed-dying-briton/2006/05/23/1148150233168.html

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

That makes me sick and very sad at the same time.

 

[NYDrew]

For a double amputee who probably spent plenty of time relying on other people, I think he is a sick, twisted, self centered useless individial. I no longer respect him what so ever. (lets steal his legs)

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

Saw this on TGR. Definitely says something about people.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/everest-climber-passed-dying-briton/2006/05/23/1148150233168.html

John84, could you post the link to that thread? I went to TGR, but couldn't find it.
Thanks

 

[David Metsky]

It's really not that simple. It's almost impossible to perform any meaningful rescue at that altitude, especially for someone so hypoxic and unable to move. Many mountaineers have opined on this story, and they take differing views on what could and should have been done. Any attempt at rescue puts themselves and others at risk, so that has to be figured into the discussion.

I can understand both sides of the issue, I'd never pass judgement until I spent some time at extreme altitude and understood what it takes.

-dave-

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

It's really not that simple. It's almost impossible to perform any meaningful rescue at that altitude, especially for someone so hypoxic and unable to move. Many mountaineers have opined on this story, and they take differing views on what could and should have been done. Any attempt at rescue puts themselves and others at risk, so that has to be figured into the discussion.

I can understand both sides of the issue, I'd never pass judgement until I spent some time at extreme altitude and understood what it takes.

-dave-

I also know nothing about extreme altitude rescue, but it seems all 40 who passed him felt safe enough to keep going on their climb to the top. Is his body still on the mountain because it's not safe enough to bring it down?

Even if there was no chance of saving his life I don't get how they could just pass him and let him die alone.

Try to imagine if it was your son or father who they just left there. How would you feel about it then?

 

[Greg]

I also know nothing about extreme altitude rescue, but it seems all 40 who passed him felt safe enough to keep going on their climb to the top. Is his body still on the mountain because it's not safe enough to bring it down?

Even if there was no chance of saving his life I don't get how they could just pass him and let him die alone.

Try to imagine if it was your son or father who they just left there. How would you feel about it then?

I see your point. I think it's somewhat of a "pact" between Everest climbers though to not risk their own lives to attempt to save another, especially if the chance of the victim's survival is grim. And yes, it probably is safer to simply continue on with their climb and summit, versus trying to haul a man's lifeless body down the mountain. It's a different mindset; something I know nothing about, nor can probably ever understand...

 

[JimG.]

I would have to echo Dave's response...you shouldn't judge men until you have been forced to walk a mile in their shoes. It's just too easy to sit here in a warm office next to alot of technology and vilify men who are in what amounts to a life and death situation.

I would feel sad and angry if it was my son or a close relative who had been left to die...but more because they had made a personal choice and were not prepared to keep themselves alive rather than at others in basically the same situation who decided to leave them there.

What a terrible choice to have to make...just that possibility alone is enough to keep me from ever trying to summit Everest.

 

[awf170]

Atleast sit with the guy for a minute or two and I ask him if there is anything he wants to tell his family before he dies.

Everest sucks. If I ever got into high alpine climbing there are about a 100 other peaks I would rather do then Everest.

 

[Greg]

Atleast sit with the guy for a minute or two and I ask him if there is anything he wants to tell his family before he dies.

There's nothing in the article that indicated this didn't happen...nor was there anything that indicating it did, but I have to imagine that out of the 40 people, somebody said something to this effect...

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

I see your point. I think it's somewhat of a "pact" between Everest climbers though to not risk their own lives to attempt to save another, especially if the chance of the victim's survival is grim. And yes, it probably is safer to simply continue on with their climb and summit, versus trying to haul a man's lifeless body down the mountain. It's a different mindset; something I know nothing about, nor can probably ever understand...

A few years back while skiing in Italy I did the Vale Blanch. It’s a decent down Mount Blanc from Italy into Chomionx. We did the tourist thing with a guide. All the guides are professional full time year round mountain guides. The first thing they told all the groups is if one of us has a problem on the mountain we all have a problem and we’ll solve it together. Maybe it’s a different code on Mt. Everest.

 

[JimG.]

There's nothing in the article that indicated this didn't happen...nor was there anything that indicating it did, but I have to imagine that out of the 40 people, somebody said something to this effect...

Well, we just don't know. I would have to interview all 40 or so folks who passed him to say for sure.

And even if nobody stopped to spend a minute chatting, can I stand here and tell them they are horrible for not doing so? You know, they might have been busy keeping themselves alive in that situation.

The guy decided to climb alone without any Sherpa support. In hindsight, bad decision. Bad decisions have awful consequences on Everest.

 

[JimG.]

A few years back while skiing in Italy I did the Vale Blanch. It’s a decent down Mount Blanc from Italy into Chomionx. We did the tourist thing with a guide. All the guides are professional full time year round mountain guides. The first thing they told all the groups is if one of us has a problem on the mountain we all have a problem and we’ll solve it together. Maybe it’s a different code on Mt. Everest.

At the risk of sounding like a total bastard with my repeated responses, there is a big difference. You were in a group with a guide. That's what you paid for and because of that, you were afforded the protection of the group.

This guy didn't want that...he elected to climb alone without support. He paid a terrible price.

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

I would have to echo Dave's response...you shouldn't judge men until you have been forced to walk a mile in their shoes. It's just too easy to sit here in a warm office next to alot of technology and vilify men who are in what amounts to a life and death situation.

Sir Edmund Hillary walked in his shoes, read what he had to say.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2006/05/24/1148150284836.html

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

At the risk of sounding like a total bastard with my repeated responses, there is a big difference. You were in a group with a guide. That's what you paid for and because of that, you were afforded the protection of the group.

This guy didn't want that...he elected to climb alone without support. He paid a terrible price.

You don't sound like a total bastard. Instead of listing our favorite ice creams at a certain ski area we are having a discussion. I like that.

People do stupid things all the time that have terrible consequences for them, but most people try to help if they can. That's our humanity.

 

[molecan]

While I agree this is a concise example of humanity's utter lack of humanity, this is nothing exceptional regarding Everest.
According to Everesthistory.com, since the 1920's there have been 186 'recorded' deaths on Everest. That's somewhere around 12% of the total number of those who have reached the summit. The bodies are left in the permafrost, either wrapped in their own tent, or simply left where they fall.
Even among Nepalese sherpas, that 'custom' stands, they do not rescue bodies of their loved ones, or family.

Everest groups often do not attempt rescue of their own members, unless other group members are willing to forgo attempting the summit.

In my opinion, (and we all know what opinions are like, but I think I'm pretty right on this one.) attempting Everest is a massive example of hubris, masochism, and suicidal egotism.

 

[JimG.]

attempting Everest is a massive example of hubris, masochism, and suicidal egotism.

Ah! This is the essential truth. Some egos so massive they attempt the summit alone...and die trying to come back down.

Some egos so massive that they take on a double amputee and chastise him for attempting to do what they have already done, when in reality it seems he was the only one with a big enough heart to stop and try to help and who, in all fairness, probably was the one person there who could offer the least amount of help...he has no legs! Sorry, but this story only increases my respect for him.

Hillary's ego was as massive if not more so trying to climb it in the first place. His opinion regarding this event is of course valid and it's what I hope I would choose to do in a similar situation, but again, it is an opinion given from the warmth of a computer or telephone call...not in the death zone above 8000 meters.

Ego, pride, hubris, carelessness, hardness of heart...those are other examples of our humanity. We don't like to look at that, especially in ourselves. That's why this is so disturbing to us. It bothers the heck out of me because honestly, I can't tell you what I would have done.

I think I would have stopped and tried to help, and probably would have wound up in trouble or dying too. But I just can't tell you. I hope I never have to find out.

 

[ALLSKIING]

I see your point. I think it's somewhat of a "pact" between Everest climbers though to not risk their own lives to attempt to save another.

This is talked about very much between all the members of all the teams from what I have read. They say you can't really save a person at 28,000 feet if you try you will most likely die trying.

 

[ALLSKIING]

A few years back while skiing in Italy I did the Vale Blanch. It’s a decent down Mount Blanc from Italy into Chomionx. We did the tourist thing with a guide. All the guides are professional full time year round mountain guides. The first thing they told all the groups is if one of us has a problem on the mountain we all have a problem and we’ll solve it together. Maybe it’s a different code on Mt. Everest.

Everest is over 29,000 feet...Its a big difference. You can't even aclimitize at that elevation you are just slowly dying.

 

[John84]

John84, could you post the link to that thread? I went to TGR, but couldn't find it.
Thanks

Here ya go HPD http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54091