NY Football

[jack97]

Disloyalty? He learned from the master.

No not disloyalty.... it's more like a divorce. In beginning, the relationship is good, at the end they were getting on each other's nerves. Patriot's Reign by Micheal Holley writes about this with the Parcells/Kraft relationship and the Belicheck/Parcell relationship, each one is closer to the divorce analogy.

The other thing about Belicheck, he's been in the NFL all his life, he knows how coaching is so fluid. He had no problems when Crennel and Weis left his staff after their last SB, he was expecting it.

 

[JimG.]

No not disloyalty.... it's more like a divorce. In beginning, the relationship is good, at the end they were getting on each other's nerves. Patriot's Reign by Micheal Holley writes about this with the Parcells/Kraft relationship and the Belicheck/Parcell relationship, each one is closer to the divorce analogy.

The other thing about Belicheck, he's been in the NFL all his life, he knows how coaching is so fluid. He had no problems when Crennel and Weis left his staff after their last SB, he was expecting it.

Then I don't understand his beef with Mangini.

Sounds like he's mad because Mangini left before Belichick thought he was ready. I guess he was ready despite what Belichick thought.

Frankly, I think Bill is mad because Mangini went the the hated Jets. And that's just tough.

 

[jack97]

Then I don't understand his beef with Mangini.

Mangini was recruiting from the patriots staff while he was interviewing for Jets and after he got the job. He signed two free agents from the pats and he inflated the value of Branch. This by itself is not bad but Mangini knew how much money the Pat were willing to pay, Mangini had an unfair advantage in terms negotiation wrt other teams. It has been alleged that he took video footage without authorization.



Suppose a former salesman's works for your competitor and he/she knew your margins and then undercuts you on your next deals? How would you feel?

And, as stated, I work in an industry where I can legally get into trouble for recruiting from my former company (however there's a difference if the former co-worker ask first).

 

[Rushski]

It definitely goes both ways w/the Jets and pats. All the way back to Parcell's day it has been a rivalry that has forced each to try to edge the other out. Players and coaches have bolted one way or the other and it just makes it more interesting for the fans/media.

Mangini/Bellichick is definitely like a divorce as jack97 stated. But I really don't put Mangini on the level of a Weis or Crenell. Definiteley MUCH less experience for Mangini.

As for suffering Giants fans, unfortunately Eli is no Peyton.

 

[jack97]

But I really don't put Mangini on the level of a Weis or Crenell. Definiteley MUCH less experience for Mangini.

As for suffering Giants fans, unfortunately Eli is no Peyton.

I def agree, Mangini doesn't have the experience. But the guy is smart, just not sure if fans and management are going to give him time to get this experience, running the team as well as overseeing a game plan with the offense in mind.

In terms of Eli, IMO, he's a good qb but not worth the money nor the draft picks Accorsi spent on him. The money tied up on this guy hampers what the G can do in attracting free agents as well as resigning their own players.

 

[JimG.]

Mangini was recruiting from the patriots staff while he was interviewing for Jets and after he got the job. He signed two free agents from the pats and he inflated the value of Branch. This by itself is not bad but Mangini knew how much money the Pat were willing to pay, Mangini had an unfair advantage in terms negotiation wrt other teams. It has been alleged that he took video footage without authorization.



Suppose a former salesman's works for your competitor and he/she knew your margins and then undercuts you on your next deals? How would you feel?

And, as stated, I work in an industry where I can legally get into trouble for recruiting from my former company (however there's a difference if the former co-worker ask first).

Pats seem to have an ingrained video culture there.

As for the business example, the food prep equipment industry is a whore's market...you do all the work introducing a new product and you're a sucker...the competition knocks it off and undercuts you. Salespeople move from business to business almost seemlessly. For us, it's a matter of relationships and who you know as far as getting deals done. My company is in trouble and is using an outdated business model...that's why I won't be working here much longer after 20 years. But that's another story.

I'm not trying to validate anyone's behaviour. My only point is that this pattern seems to be endemic to the Pats and their alums. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

 

[jack97]

One high tech company I worked for, we had a strategic marketing manager, he knew our present financial situation, future product development plans, margins for each product lines and so on. He went to our rivals with this information and competed with us head on for several accounts. In the high tech world, they get real paranoid about IP and recruitment. Stuff like this can make or break a company. And it draws some close analogies to the Belichick/Mangini or Pat/Jets rivalry.Thus I can understand the bitterness.

 

[JimG.]

One high tech company I worked for, we had a strategic marketing manager, he knew our present financial situation, future product development plans, margins for each product lines and so on. He went to our rivals with this information and competed with us head on for several accounts. In the high tech world, they get real paranoid about IP and recruitment. Stuff like this can make or break a company. And it draws some close analogies to the Belichick/Mangini or Pat/Jets rivalry.Thus I can understand the bitterness.

There are no compete agreements...I'll bet everyone there signed one after that guy left.

I think the whole Jet's/Pats thing is high entertainment. Great stuff and it adds alot of juice to the NFL.

 

[FRITOLAYGUY]

Lets be honest though Jim G could go in and coach the Pats this year and they would be 10-6 worse case scenario. Ya know if the NFL really wanted to punish the Pats for cheating they should have taken away their 6th round draft choice in the 2000 draft.

 

[JimG.]

Lets be honest though Jim G could go in and coach the Pats this year and they would be 10-6 worse case scenario. Ya know if the NFL really wanted to punish the Pats for cheating they should have taken away their 6th round draft choice in the 2000 draft.

No no, not me...not a football coach.

No desire either.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

As for suffering Giants fans, unfortunately Eli is no Peyton.

It has nothing to do with Eli, I think he has been one of the bright spots. The correct statement is the Giants are not the Colts. Terrible pass defense(not a new problem), poor linebacking, terrible defensive line, weak offensive line looking at it from end to end and no running attack.

 

[jack97]

There are no compete agreements...I'll bet everyone there signed one after that guy left.

When I started, no compete /no recruitment was standard in the letter offer and later it became a required written agreement between employee and company.

And yeah, the pats/jet is great soap opera. the league would be dull without these rivalries.

 

[jack97]

It has nothing to do with Eli, I think he has been one of the bright spots. The correct statement is the Giants are not the Colts. Terrible pass defense(not a new problem), poor linebacking, terrible defensive line, weak offensive line looking at it from end to end and no running attack.

IMO, eli is a problem if he takes up alot of cap space, and getting him cost the Giant some draft picks. You can't surround the guy with talent since he took away these options.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

IMO, eli is a problem if he takes up alot of cap space, and getting him cost the Giant some draft picks. You can't surround the guy with talent since he took away these options.

That might be true but you can't go back in time. Cry over spilled milk if you want but whats done is done. Gotta deal with reality if you want to move forward.

 

[jack97]

That might be true but you can't go back in time. Cry over spilled milk if you want but whats done is done. Gotta deal with reality if you want to move forward.

Not crying for the g-men. I'm crying because the pats lost a 1st round pick, that hurts.

Just pointing out in the salary cap and free agency era, you have to plan ahead and have good to excellent player evaluation. Pats got Adalius Thomas because the ravens could not sign him nor franchise him, otherwise they would be in violation of their cap. I think Baltimore has fessed up saying it was poor (cap) planning on their part. BTW, did you see the speed on that guy, 270 lb and the bolt wr couldn't make any ground. Teams pay big money for that size and speed.

IMO, Acorsi blew it by putting all his eggs in one basket, I think trading down to get more picks is the way to go, Jimmy Johnson did it in Dallas and Bill Walsh did it in SF. Both built solid teams.

 

[FRITOLAYGUY]

Not crying for the g-men. I'm crying because the pats lost a 1st round pick, that hurts.

Just pointing out in the salary cap and free agency era, you have to plan ahead and have good to excellent player evaluation. Pats got Adalius Thomas because the ravens could not sign him nor franchise him, otherwise they would be in violation of their cap. I think Baltimore has fessed up saying it was poor (cap) planning on their part. BTW, did you see the speed on that guy, 270 lb and the bolt wr couldn't make any ground. Teams pay big money for that size and speed.

IMO, Acorsi blew it by putting all his eggs in one basket, I think trading down to get more picks is the way to go, Jimmy Johnson did it in Dallas and Bill Walsh did it in SF. Both built solid teams.

I did see that guy, boy he was like a train, nobody was catching him, very impressive for a man his size.

 

[FRITOLAYGUY]

The NFL is great, after 2 weeks of football, which would be about 1/8th of a baseball season you already have thoughts like hmm Dallas seems destined for a superbowl, NE is on top of their game and will probably see INDY in the AFC championship game because SD just doesnt have it this year.. The Jets, Bills, and Giants are all done, they all suck and need new quarterbacks. The Lions, pack, 49ers, and redskins are nice early season stories but will they be around at playoff time? Thats why the NFL is great, in 2 more weeks everything above will be reversed.

 

[Rushski]

The NFL is great, after 2 weeks of football, which would be about 1/8th of a baseball season you already have thoughts like hmm Dallas seems destined for a superbowl, NE is on top of their game and will probably see INDY in the AFC championship game because SD just doesnt have it this year.. The Jets, Bills, and Giants are all done, they all suck and need new quarterbacks. The Lions, pack, 49ers, and redskins are nice early season stories but will they be around at playoff time? Thats why the NFL is great, in 2 more weeks everything above will be reversed.

Also add Houston as another nice early season story. Plus, Pittsburgh are looking strong. BUT, as you stated shortly all this talk will be meaningless.

Except the NY teams will still all suck and Indy/NE will be there at the end.

 

[jack97]

because SD just doesnt have it this year.. .

This tells me what a great job cameron did during his years with sd. He use play action because LT is such a great threat, got his TE and FB involved in the short and medium passes. Last week shows that they don't have the wide outs to keep the safeties honest. Under Turner, they need time to transtion, but I'm not sold on the guy, SD might implode this year. Time will tell if Cameron can turn it around with the fins.

 

[FRITOLAYGUY]

This tells me what a great job cameron did during his years with sd. He use play action because LT is such a great threat, got his TE and FB involved in the short and medium passes. Last week shows that they don't have the wide outs to keep the safeties honest. Under Turner, they need time to transtion, but I'm not sold on the guy, SD might implode this year. Time will tell if Cameron can turn it around with the fins.

Dont get me wrong i still think they will be 10-6 even with their bad start and make the playoffs, but as far as people putting there with the Pats and Indy as the Elite teams they have taken a step down to the second tier of teams, its the Pats, Indy, and everyone else after that.