Rescued skiers will pay state

[dmc]

True, as it stands know the rescuers have no way of knowing if it's someone who is prepared for the BC or if it's a couple of knuckle heads who left on their own would die.

When we got lost in Utah a couple years ago we we're prepared to spend the night.. We ended up in a drainage on the wrong ridge at Powder mountain(not my fault-wasnt leading)... Snow was waist deep and we were on the wrong side of the creek..
We were able to call up to one of the guys who was bringing up the rear to stop and climb out..
He's a patroller at Hunter - real calm dude..
Since he wasn't all the way down the ridge - he was able to get out quickly..
Patrol was nervous at first but calmed down once he told them we're were carrying tranceivers/shovels/food and water and had BC experience...
They were able to spend resources looking for others lost that day and there were quite a few... It was total whiteout conditions...

We found a way to get back across the creek and just started climbing... Took us a few hours to get out.. But we made it...

 

[JimG.]

True, as it stands know the rescuers have no way of knowing if it's someone who is prepared for the BC or if it's a couple of knuckle heads who left on their own would die.

When we got lost in Utah a couple years ago we we're prepared to spend the night.. We ended up in a drainage on the wrong ridge at Powder mountain(not my fault-wasnt leading)... Snow was waist deep and we were on the wrong side of the creek..
We were able to call up to one of the guys who was bringing up the rear to stop and climb out..
He's a patroller at Hunter - real calm dude..
Since he wasn't all the way down the ridge - he was able to get out quickly..
Patrol was nervous at first but calmed down once he told them we're were carrying tranceivers/shovels/food and water and had BC experience...
They were able to spend resources looking for others lost that day and there were quite a few... It was total whiteout conditions...

We found a way to get back across the creek and just started climbing... Took us a few hours to get out.. But we made it...

Thank God for meat flavored chapstick!

 

[dmc]

True, as it stands know the rescuers have no way of knowing if it's someone who is prepared for the BC or if it's a couple of knuckle heads who left on their own would die.

When we got lost in Utah a couple years ago we we're prepared to spend the night.. We ended up in a drainage on the wrong ridge at Powder mountain(not my fault-wasnt leading)... Snow was waist deep and we were on the wrong side of the creek..
We were able to call up to one of the guys who was bringing up the rear to stop and climb out..
He's a patroller at Hunter - real calm dude..
Since he wasn't all the way down the ridge - he was able to get out quickly..
Patrol was nervous at first but calmed down once he told them we're were carrying tranceivers/shovels/food and water and had BC experience...
They were able to spend resources looking for others lost that day and there were quite a few... It was total whiteout conditions...

We found a way to get back across the creek and just started climbing... Took us a few hours to get out.. But we made it...

Thank God for meat flavored chapstick!

I had granola.... Wayno had chapstick..

 

[ctenidae]

These guys, while not skiers, should probably be charged something for their rescues . . .

http://www.pennlive.com/newsflash/p...-50/1125289444158302.xml&storylist=pahomepage

 

[ski_resort_observer]

This thread is not about whether DMC needs to be rescued after sking in a closed area and ending up spending the night cause he could not find his way out.

If he/they have the skills they would not get lost, would not need to spend the night,would not need to be rescued. In this case He/they should only pay a fine for sking in a closed area.

This is not the case with the skiers this thread refers to. They should pay part of their rescue, pay a fine for skiing in a closed trail and then given a good boot to the butt and then given a road map with discount tickets for Mountain Creek.

 

[dmc]

If he/they have the skills they would not get lost, would not need to spend the night,would not need to be rescued.

Never say never - even the best get lost sometimes..
Not everyday that starts bluebird stays that way... Things happen..

If that were the case - why would experienced BC people even carry emergency stuff to bivouac..??

It's would be pretty cocky of someone to think they could NEVER get lost.. But half the fun of getting lost is finding your way back...

All I'm trying to do - once again - is debate from the person who isn't a noob and has experience..

 

[Lostone]

I don't see this as really in doubt.

They were found the next morning. If they really had the skills they'd have gotten out of there that night.

They deserve having to pay.

And I think dmc should have to pay for them. :blink: :wink: :lol:

 

[riverc0il]

You guys should know by now that i will always take the side thats less popular just for debate sake.

that's lame. it is one thing to stand in the middle and ask questions and play devil's advocate. but it's another to take a stand on an issue and flip flop. people CAN change their minds and DO all the time. but as we've seen on the political stage recently, you tend to loose credibility and people do not take your argument as seriously. sorry, i just don't understand taking a less popular side just for debate sake unless you aren't honestly questioning it yourself.

 

[riverc0il]

as someone who goes outside of ski area boundaries frequently, i applaud the fees and also applaud the rescued skiers for working with the authorities to put money back into the pot for S&R folks.

fact is, if a skier goes off the map and is reported missing, S&R is likely to come looking for you unless (such as in DMC's case described above), the skier has communicated a need not to be rescued or the group is known to have good winter overnight experience and is properly equiped to do so. other wise, S&R is coming in and at that point, someone has to pay for these folks and their gear whether they live to do it or not. i am sure doctors love performing surgery but i wouldn't advocate for someone not needing to pay because the doctor doing the surgery loves it.

quite frankly, i am happy to know there are people out there willing to donate their time, resources, and energy to help get people out of trouble that are in over there head. no one ever thinks it will happen to them, but i'd step up to the sum of $3k if someone saved my ass from freezing to death.

can't wait for the sledhauler to throw back some jose, light up the crack pipe, and respond to this thread! :lol:

 

[dmc]

You guys should know by now that i will always take the side thats less popular just for debate sake.

that's lame. it is one thing to stand in the middle and ask questions and play devil's advocate. but it's another to take a stand on an issue and flip flop. people CAN change their minds and DO all the time. but as we've seen on the political stage recently, you tend to loose credibility and people do not take your argument as seriously. sorry, i just don't understand taking a less popular side just for debate sake unless you aren't honestly questioning it yourself.

Your opinion - cool..
I'm always question myself.. For instance - when the whole Arron Ralston thing broke I was pissed at the dude for being reckless... But now after talking to friends that do solo stuff all the time - I've softened my stance..

I just present different sides for debate sake.. Keeps good conversation and ideas generating..

I really didn't flip-flop... It's more amping up the debate to another level.. Asking the question - what if I didn't want to get rescued? What if I did have the skills to survive and people came looking for me?

I agree that if the SR people want $$ they should get it...

But whatever... If you don't like what I do - I can stop..

 

[dmc]

If they really had the skills they'd have gotten out of there that night.

Disagree...
I f someone has skills for that kind of stuff - they'd know to bivouac the night to wait out the cold and start out at sunrise..

It's a pretty big expanse behind Coopers at Killington...

 

[dmc]

Does anybody know if search and rescue charged Meathead Films for that tragic accident in Smugs Notch last winter?

 

[sledhaulingmedic]

As I recall, the rescuers have always had some discretion, it's just official now. From the examples we'd talked about before, IIRC, we agreed with the decisions the rescuers made. It is subjective, no doubt, but I'd rather go with the subjective opinion of professionals than the ironclad no-questions opinion of legislators who have never been in the woods.

Your assuming the rescuers are people that have been in the woods...
Sometimes they're just volunteer rescue guys that don't ski or hike the woods in winter.. They mainly respond to car wrecks and heart attacks - not search and rescue...
Plus - a lot of these guys live for this stuff - It's like their hobby... They can't wait to turn out for stuff... Gets them out of the house.

I'm just not comfortable with grey areas..

Actually, Upper Valley Wilderness Response Team (the group referenced in the article)is a well run and well trained volunteer team, from what little I know :wink: This has a lot to do with why VSP SAR unit has them on the top of their call list for this type of search.

Of the numerous Ski-related SAR incidents in the Northeast in the last several years (most at Killington and Jay), none of the subjects asked why the teams came after them and refused assistance. In all cases, family or friends reported them missing or the subjects themselves had reported themselves lost (by radio or Cell). VSP or NH F&G does not initiate a search because someone sees tracks going OB at 16:00, they initiate a search because someone is reported missing.

If you read the reports on the searchs (the internal reports, not the newspaper accounts), you will have a lot of trouble defending the subjects actions as "responsible". The common theme: lack of navigation skills, no knowledge of the area, no preparation for backcountry travel, no contingency plan, little or no experience in backcountry. Sounds reckless to me, but just my opinion.

Will there be a gray area in the latitude that Law enforcement is given? Yes. That's typical in how LE operates. They need that latitude, otherwise, for example, they'd be handing out tickets for 1 MPH over the limit.

Bottom line, as previously mentioned: Be responsable for your actions.

 

[sledhaulingmedic]

Does anybody know if search and rescue charged Meathead Films for that tragic accident in Smugs Notch last winter?

As far as I can tell, no.

With all respect to the departed, Alec Stall, the complete report can be found at: http://www.stowevt.org/htt/Stall_Report_files/Stall_Report.pdf[/url]

Several references are made to the equipment they carried, training and knowledge of the area.

 

[dmc]

Does anybody know if search and rescue charged Meathead Films for that tragic accident in Smugs Notch last winter?

As far as I can tell, no.

With all respect to the departed, Alec Stall, the complete report can be found at: http://www.stowevt.org/htt/Stall_Report_files/Stall_Report.pdf[/url]

Several references are made to the equipment they carried, training and knowledge of the area.

Thanks..

 

[Brettski]

Hey, the guys made a fire....all the needed were some marshmallows....and a gps

 

[Brettski]

Amazing stuff

http://www.stowevt.org/htt/callout.htm

 

[dmc]

Amazing stuff

http://www.stowevt.org/htt/callout.htm

July 26, 2005

A subject called on his cell phone after getting confused while hiking to the top of Mt. Mansfield from the Stowe gondola station. He ended up on an unfamiliar trail while trying to hike back down to the gondola. He did not have a map and was unfamiliar with the area. It was determined that he was probably on the Sunset Ridge Trail heading down the west side of the mountain, opposite from where he came up. He eventually made it to the bottom and got a ride back to Stowe where his wife was waiting for him.

Charge him for rescue... Cause he's an idiot

July 19, 2005

A male subject fell while hiking on the Cliff Trail above the gondola station on Mt. Mansfield, and required evacuation by stokes litter for back injuries.

Charge him for rescue... Should've had better boots on...



I could go on...

 

[sledhaulingmedic]

Back to DMC's question, it has been my experience that cost recovery is never attempted in body recoveries. I believe that most AHJ's (authorities having juristiction - VSP SAR and NH F&G) feel that it would be very insensitive to the victim's survivors.

As I was saying, when you read the reports, you can see why there is support for levying cost recovery on many of the subjects. SHTT's site seems to have more than it's share!

I checked UVWRT's site (which responded to many of the K-mart incidents) and they no longer post the reports. Their policy is now to keep them internal. The MRG search seemed to show an exceptionally high degree of poor judgement by the "Adult" in the group.

 

[dmc]

If I was ever billed for search and rescue...

I ask for the bill to itemized... Seriously...