Resort liability/insurance

[David Metsky]

The McDonalds Coffee case is a fine example of the system actually working right. The jury awarded the lady (I believe) $4M for spilling coffee in her lap under what most people agree were stupid circumstances. It was then reduced considerably becasue the woman was to a large extent to blame, because the spill resulted from her own actions. Yes, McDonalds held their coffee at too high a temperature despite many warnings, and that's why they were held to blame. The woman held a cup of coffee with no lid between her legs, though, so the award was reduced substantially.

You're recollections of the McDonalds coffee case are substantially at odds with the facts. The coffee was extremely hot, to the point of being dangerous to the general public. They'd already settled 700 cases of injuries, this one was just the worst.

http://lawandhelp.com/q298-2.htm
http://www.caoc.com/facts.htm
http://www.osmond-riba.org/lis/essay_mcdonalds.htm
http://www.citizen.org/congress/civjus/tort/myths/articles.cfm?ID=785
http://hurt911.org/mcdonalds.html

This is exactly why calls to save us from our litigious society should be looked at extremely closely. I have no illusions that there aren't any cases out there that are frivolous, but before you choose examples you should do a little research.

-dave-

 

[freeheelwilly]

FHW:

1. Watch the language.
2. Don't tell me how to admin these forums.
3. Don't be so paranoid. I don't think any insurance companies are trying to infiltrate this little message board... :roll: If anyone in this thread seems like they have some sort of agenda, it's you.

Hey Greg, Newsflash: This forum sucks. Why don't you post some more pictures of groomed, intermediate terrain or some gapers snowplowing down some forgetable trail in New Hampmont somewhere. Oh, I know..my favorite, the picture of the back of that building at the top of Killington. Great shot!! Hahahaha! And if you think that lil' insurance dweeb wasn't hard at work in here you're nuts! These turds have been trying to do mold public opinion on these issues for years.

Have fun telling each other where the best groomed cordouroy is. "Alpinezone" my ass! I'm outa here.

 

[GadgetRick]

Thank goodness!

Have fun telling each other where the best groomed cordouroy is. "Alpinezone" my ass! I'm outa here.

Thank goodness! I guess this guy never heard of a good debate. Too much, "I'm right and you're nuts for saying I'm wrong," there.

 

[Greg]

I'm outa here.

Bye. :wink:

 

[hammer]

I'm outa here.

We'll miss you about as much as the Red Sox missed Nomar at the end of the season...

 

[ctenidae]

Sorry, but I think my use of McDonald's works out pretty well. McD's was to blame in part because they had their coffee too hot, knew it, but did nothing about it. However, they were not held entirely to blame because the coffee was spilled through the woman's own actions. So, I'm not using it as an example of an over-litigious society, I'm using it as an example of a time when responsibility was, at least mostly, correctly assigned.
Which brings me back to the question of ski resorts. Should the resort be held responsible when someone attempts a jump or trick in a clearly marked terrain park, and injures themselves? Clearly, I think not.

 

[riverc0il]

Why don't you post some more pictures of groomed, intermediate terrain or some gapers snowplowing down some forgetable trail in New Hampmont somewhere.

you mean something like this "forgetable" trail in new hampshire? ummmmm, yea. c-ya. :roll:

 

[Charlie Schuessler]

...Which brings me back to the question of ski resorts. Should the resort be held responsible when someone attempts a jump or trick in a clearly marked terrain park, and injures themselves? Clearly, I think not.

Does anyone know what position the Court System(s) has/is taking on this particular issue of being injured inside an obstacle course?

I'm curious....if the obstacle course is not maintained in accordance to designer, installer and the product manufacturer(s) instructions, and that injures a snow sport athlete....is the mountain responsible then? Or would it be reasonably viewed the risk is the same as natural hazard?

Risk Management can be interesting stuff...how much risk is the mountain operator willing to manage.... how much risk is the snow sport athlete willing to manage....at my age, things twist, break and hurt sooner & longer than 30-years ago…that’s my Risk Mangement incentive!

 

[ctenidae]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ski+resort+liability+insurance&btnG=Google+Search

Alpinezone should be proud...

Anyway, Charlie, here's a few takes on the issue:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/3998460/detail.html

From a lawyer: http://www.kpclegal.com/pub_litigate_winter04_1.htm

http://carecure.atinfopop.com/4/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=4754088921&f=5854088921&m=3204063122

How they fare compared to natural hazards I'm not sure. More research is needed.

 

[Stephen]

Unregulated freedom must coexist with responsibility. One without the other is vacuous. Abusing one results in a diminishment of the other. Group dynamics demand it.

Having the freedom to sue implies some responsibility on the part of the people to not abuse it with frivolous lawsuits. When they fail to do so, then everyone's freedom is affected.

If my kids are playing in the living room, and one of them opens a present lying under the tree, and no one owns up to it... then all of them have their freedom restricted.

-Stephen

 

[ctenidae]

McD's, as well as everyone else, does put warnings on their coffee cups, etc.
Go buy some of the disposable palstic containers. Embossed on the lid is this gem: "Caution- Contents may be hot."
Ya think? You got the container empty. You put stuff in it, and you either heated it or didn't. Why must the manufatcturer warn you that something you have complete and total control over warn you that it may be hot?

 

[David Metsky]

Hot coffee issue. It's so hot it burns, by the normal standards. I burn my mouth, to the point of blisters if I have anything hotter than lukewarm hot chocolate. Can I sue and get rich????

Dunno, does the hot cocoa cause 3rd degree burns over 6% of your body that requires skin grafts and rehab?

McDonalds wasn't sued because someone spilled coffee on themselves. Everyone expects that to happen and if that were it, there would be no (successful) lawsuit. They lost (then settled out of court) because their coffee was beyond a reasonable standard of hot, they'd been warned about it, and they chose to do nothing.

In a ski area for example, you could come across a terrain park with some dangerous objects. True, people assume some risk in a park, but if you got repeated reports of skiers and riders getting hurt on a piece, at some point it becomes the resort's responsibility (IMO) to take corrective action.

People come to different conclusions about where lines should be drawn, and the system we have to resolve this for better or worse is the court system.