mbedle
Well-known member
Damn - that's good to know.... Hopefully Vail will loosen their no open container rules. lol
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Ski Resort Response to COVID-19
- Thread starter thetrailboss
- Start date
Damn - that's good to know.... Hopefully Vail will loosen their no open container rules. lol
This is the main point. I rarely use the gondola and just won't at all this coming season.
I only use the gondi to get to the summit lodge for lunch. So I'll just skip getting lunch there this season and bring lunch to eat in my car.
There is a major point everyone seems to be missing. The 20-30 somethings are going to screw up whatever plan b is put in place. They refuse to follow rules that are already in place and guaranteed they will do the same come ski season.
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drjeff
Well-known member
For perspective BG, the CDC has changed its guidance for what I do for a living, with respect to a few key items involved in this conversation, that gives some relevance which I think can be hypothesized currently into what ski area ops may look like this winter, if things don't drastically get worse.
#1 - even in the "high risk" environment that I work in, with aerosols being generated directly into and out of the oral cavity, and in close proximity to the oral cavity, no longer is the guidance that myself or my staff has to wear an N95 or higher mask. I am wearing a regular surgical mask while working just like I wear when I go into a store to get groceries or something similar.
#2 The CDC about 3 weeks ago, changed its guidance for room disinfection after aerosol generating procedures. It had been to disinfectant all surfaces and then leave undisturbed for 15 minutes before bringing the next patient in, now it is just like it was all along pre COVID-19, which is disinfect all surfaces and then you are immediately free to bring the next patient into the room if you want to.
As science learns more and more about the nuisances of COVID-19 it seems to be showing that it can be effectively prevented transmission wise with simpler face coverings than originally thought, and out on exposed surfaces, it is easier to neutralize than originally speculated.
Now if it is able to populate ones oral cavity and throat past a certain quantity (which seems to vary greatly depending on a slew of factors from age, concentrated exposure time, underlying co-morbidities, etc) then that can be a serious issue for some, but certainly not all.
Would I want to be riding in a gondola or bubble chair with someone showing multiple symptoms? Nope. Would I feel comfortable riding a gondola or bubble chair while wearing a mask and someone who isn't showing any symptoms, even if they happen to be COVID-19 positive? Probably. Since the reality is while to my knowledge I haven't worked on anyone as of yet who was confirmed to be COVID-19 positive, the reality is that I more than likely have, and as of about 10 days ago, I am still testing negative for COVID-19.
I fully get that this disease process does scare many people. And that's OK, and for some, very appropriate. My own personal experiences in a high risk environment for communicable disease transmission for the past 25yrs has taught me to trust the precautions and continually practice them and that the risk to myself if I follow those things is very low. Life isn't a zero risk thing, and everyone has their own comfort levels with various risks that we encounter every day.
If the data shows that even if I do contract COVID-19 that there is roughly a 99% chance that I will recover, that's a risk I am comfortable with. That's just my own feeling, and I fully understand that others have their own, different feelings as well
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drjeff
Well-known member
I am just waiting for something akin to any bar that can still be open will restrict entrance to just those 40 and over!! Lol!!
Not that that would stop the seemingly significant spikes around the country in the 20 somethings right now, just shift where the infections happen
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Smellytele
Well-known member
while it does seen the 20-30 yo's are causing issues, I notice a lot of older people refusing to use face masks - around my town it seems to be the very right leaning people. I am not a Republican nor a democrat I am more libertarian (left socially but right fiscally - do what you want as long as it doesn't effect me physically or financially).
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
You made a lots of points that I agree with, mostly regarding the likely efficacy of mask use. Still, the conversation is solely regarding gondolas for skiing, and I'm just not seeing how what you're saying makes sense for the general public. Or why you scientifically think people wont get COVID19 from riding in a contaminated gondy car, which you didnt address.
People arent going to be wearing an N95, N100, or even the loose-fitting, common, surgical masks that you're talking about while riding in a gondola. From the above, it's great that YOU personally apparently plan on doing so, but that's pretty much irrelevant regarding this subject given I doubt many others will.
The other thing I'd disagree with you empirically about, which is statistically pretty easy to prove, is that's it is highly unlikely that you have (at this point) worked on a COVID19+ patient (less than a 1 in 75 chance for your geography as of yesterday). And likely far less than that given people who know they're sick today dont show up at the dentist (e.g. that 1 in 75 figure is biased towards the low end). Even adjusting downward for the much (hysterically) talked about asymptomatic carriers (e.g. which would bump that 1 in 75 figure towards a higher end) who may not know they're COVID19+ it's relatively low odds.
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Not Sure
Well-known member
There seems to be some people struggling with the warm temps and wearing a mask, I get that but for some others it's turning into a freedom of choice thing , I get that too .
There's a mistrust in the people who are leaders . After all Fauci some time ago said not to wear a mask . Lots of Virus fatigue causing people to let there guard down . It's important to wear one yes but recently people who weren't wearing masks have been assaulted in public . That's way over the line .
When doctors trying to discuss medicine are censored by a "public" forums comparisons are made to "Digitally burning books " ...Fuel for those who are distrustful to begin with .
Newpylong
Well-known member
Eh, anyone who refuses to wear one (given the empirical evidence that we ALL will be safer if we just suck it up and do it) should be made an example of. I wouldn't assault anyone but if I see someone in the store not wearing one (when the business requests that all customers wear them), I speak up. I am about as freedom loving and libertarian as the next guy but enough is enough, people need to stop with the "it's my right" BS. If you want to make it your right go buy an island or live in a cave, otherwise suck it up and it will all be over hopefully soon and meanwhile the most susceptible of our population will be more protected. No one has a right to make others sick.
Fauci did in the very beginning say not to wear masks, mainly to keep masks in clinical settings where people treating patients with Covid needed them. They also didn't (and still don't) fully understand how and why this thing spreads and effects people.
As far as people being assaulted, how about those non mask wearing individuals who bludgeoned a target worker because he asked someone to put on a mask? Who cares if its hot, you have to wear a mask. If you walk into a store without a shirt or shoes they tell you to leave, well now you need a mask too. Get over it. Take it off when you walk outside.
Another piece of info, this shit about having medical conditions and not wearing masks is about as idiotic as an statement ever made. I you have a condition where you have "difficulty" breathing with a mask, you are exactly the person who needs to wear one. You would be someone at highest risk of dying from Covid. I have asthma and have to wear a mask 8-10 hours a day 5 days a week and while I don't like it, its much better to the alternative.
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VTKilarney
Well-known member
The same people who refuse to wear masks are probably the same people who claim that their yappy little chihuahua is an emotional support animal.
All this was super helpful - thanks for sharing.
My parents are both retired MDs, and my dad (who happens to like talking about this more) was saying this last piece in March when he told me something to the effect of, "I wouldn't be super worried unless I'm in a nursing home because almost everyone else who gets it will recover"
Hence why I'm so hung up on how our NYC-area leaders haven't been absolutely raked over the coals for sending COVID-positive patients back into nursing homes while thousands of extra hospital beds they requested sat idle. It sounds like if they were taking advice from medical professionals with half a clue, they would have known better than to do this.
Just out of curiosity, did they ever cop to this, or is this just something people have gotten in the habit of telling themselves to make it seem like the epidemiologists/government knew/knows more about this virus than they actually do?
On a personal note, stay safe - I have a close friend and family member with asthma, and I definitely spend time concerned about how vulnerable they are.
Totally agree. Wear a mask!
I don't like it either. But I've spent the last 4 months trying to follow the medical professionals' advice, staying mostly at home. When I do go outside it's to engage in a solitary activity, fishing mostly during that time. And it pisses me off that I've followed the rules but others can't and the country is still locked down in many ways. Mostly because people are too selfish or too stupid to behave with the common good in mind. I don't care what anyone perceives their "rights" are. You don't have the right to make me or others sick.
slatham
Well-known member
I have to agree, they could, but the big question is the level of enforcement at ski areas. I could see (and hope) some being pretty strict - a warning or two then pull the ticket (or mark the pass). After a couple of infractions, a full-on ban, either for a period of time or the season. If ski area's use reservation systems this will be easy to enforce. In my mind skiing is the ultimate privilege, operated by a private business, so if people don't play by the rules, that business has the right to revoke that privilege. Non-mask wearing idiots are not a protected class under the law.
Yes!
And for those who feel there's no way to enforce rules about crossing state lines, remember you are going to a ski area and in most cases will have to drive up a solitary access road to get there. Nothing could be easier than for a state cop or two to park at the entrance and pull over out of state plates to check quarantine compliance. If you are from out of state you are nothing but a sitting duck.
They wouldn't even have to pull them over. They just scan your plate now and know exactly who you are. The only issue though is how do they know if they have isolated for two weeks, unless this is done in tandom with checks of people coming across the border, and theres no way VT has the resources to do that
Not Sure
Well-known member
Seems pretty simple . No shirt,shoes,mask "No Service" . Assaulting someone because of an entitlement attitude needs to be cured with some time in jail.
Got to thinking about N95 masks as I wear them a lot . Does trapping your breath and re breathing it have long term health affects? I have an 02 analyzer ( Recently calibrated ) I put on a mask and put the probe underneath and checked 02 level . I was surprised it dropped to 17.5% pretty significant drop ! I was not doing any kind of strenuous activity . Wearing a mask in conditioned space is one thing but 95F 60% humidity is not .
" I you have a condition where you have "difficulty" breathing with a mask, you are exactly the person who needs to wear one"
Exactly! you shouldn't be out in public .
https://preview.redd.it/8r9188v2twc11.gif?format=mp4&b8291374
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mbedle
Well-known member
The O2 level beneath your mask does not equate to your blood's O2 level. We do not consume all of the O2 present in each volume of air we breath. Hence the reason we can perform MTM resuscitation.
Dickc
Active member
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/02/health/gupta-coronavirus-t-cell-cross-reactivity-immunity-wellness/index.html
I know some might not read as its CNN, but its really interesting article on many of the unknowns.
The following kind of stood out to me:
"For herd immunity, if indeed we have a very large proportion of the population already being immune in one way or another, through these cellular responses, they can count towards the pool that you need to establish herd immunity. If you have 50% already in a way immune, because of these existing immune responses, then you don't need 60 to 80%, you need 10 to 30% -- you have covered the 50% already. The implications of having some pre-existing immunity suggests that maybe you need a small proportion of the population to be impacted before the epidemic wave dies out," said Dr. John Ioannidis, a professor of medicine and epidemiology and population health at Stanford University.
I know some might not read as its CNN, but its really interesting article on many of the unknowns.
The following kind of stood out to me:
"For herd immunity, if indeed we have a very large proportion of the population already being immune in one way or another, through these cellular responses, they can count towards the pool that you need to establish herd immunity. If you have 50% already in a way immune, because of these existing immune responses, then you don't need 60 to 80%, you need 10 to 30% -- you have covered the 50% already. The implications of having some pre-existing immunity suggests that maybe you need a small proportion of the population to be impacted before the epidemic wave dies out," said Dr. John Ioannidis, a professor of medicine and epidemiology and population health at Stanford University.
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