Ski Resort Response to COVID-19

[VTKilarney]

Tell that to anyone who has lost a loved one to the diseases.

They have my sympathies but they don’t get to dictate policy. Scientists and epidemiologists do. You made a cheap argument and got called out on it. That’s all.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Little hypocritical of you to beat the loudest drum of no gondolas, but packed school hallways? NBD right?

No, it's not hypocritical at all, because they're completely dissimilar situations in myriad numerous ways, which should be obvious to you.

Secondly, the hallways are not going to be "packed", as social distancing measures & spacing will be strictly enforced at every school.

Science needs to rule the day here, not human emotion.

 

[cdskier]

Secondly, the hallways are not going to be "packed", as social distancing measures & spacing will be strictly enforced at every school.

LOL!

There have already been viral photos of this not being the case in schools down south that have reopened.

 

[BenedictGomez]

There have already been viral photos of this not being the case in schools down south that have reopened.

Then shame on that school, because it's easy to enact, but frankly, no matter as it is really not the students who need the protecting.

This honestly really shouldn't be terribly hard. Something like as follows is entirely rational based on evidence-based medicine.

1) If a student lives in a home with a person >=60 (e.g. grandparent) that student gets home-schooled for the semester until 3 weeks post vaccination.

2) If a student lives in a home with anyone immunocompromised (any age), that student gets home-schooled for the semester until 3 weeks post vaccination.

3) If a student lives in a home with anyone with a comorbidity (any age), that student gets home-schooled for the semester until 3 weeks post vaccination.

4) Any teacher or teacher domiciling with a person falling into #1, #2, or #3 above stays home for the semester, and does not return until 3 weeks post vaccination.

5) All current, best practice, CDC recommended social distancing is followed.

6) Masks are worn in the classroom

You follow the above & probably 95% of kids and teachers could safely return to the classroom tomorrow.

 

[BenedictGomez]

If that's the logic and argument we're going to use, we should just all stay locked in bubbles forever.
Life has to go on.

THIS.

How many people will die from not getting an annual physical, from not doing their yearly skin cancer screening, from not going to the doctor for what ails them & then they die from a heart attack or a later-than-normal diagnosed cancer, or something else, etc....? How many jobs will be lost from being capriciously cautious rather than realistically cautious?

I had a huge epiphany a few weeks ago while analyzing pharmaceutical sales data. As one might expect, sales of everything are down. It's pretty tough to prescribe drugs when doctors offices are closed. It's pretty tough to prescribe drugs when patients are afraid to go to the doctor's office. It's pretty hard to prescribe surgical drugs when most elective surgeries were restricted. You get the picture. There's literally only 1 drug in our entire pharma portfolio whose sales are UP during COVID19. That drug? It's an anti-depressant. That was a real eye-opener for me in terms of just how serious the unintended negative consequences of COVID19 responses might be, and it is very sad & troubling. I'm confident that story will one-day be told.

 

[deadheadskier]

No, it's not hypocritical at all, because they're completely dissimilar situations in myriad numerous ways, which should be obvious to you.

Secondly, the hallways are not going to be "packed", as social distancing measures & spacing will be strictly enforced at every school.

Science needs to rule the day here, not human emotion.

How dense are you? It's obvious to almost everyone in numerous myriad ways except for yourself.

Nationally there has been no policy set forth on educational guidelines to Covid response because well.... Betsy Devos. Current federal policy leadership is unequivocally anti-science compared to any time in modern history. Yet you bang for a scientific response to drive policy and think it exists?

But, The feds have completely punted, so that's irrelevant.

So let's look at the states.

I have not seen a single unified State plan that guarantees no packed hallways and strict enforcement of social distancing. Even if there were such a thing, there's no language or investment guarantees in the resources needed to achieve it; which the vast majority of school districts in this country do not have.

It's hard enough to control adolescent behavior in schools during normal times, yet you some how feel EVERY school will have a plan for strict spacing and social distancing and that they will execute such correctly and effectively? While undermanned?

That's rich.

Holy fuck what a bubble of disconnected reality you live in. Yet you always profess to be AZs leader on scientific understanding and application.

Note (again): I'm not against kids going back to school. I just want to see a plan before I admit my child. That was the entirety of my point. Having to choose prior to fully knowing the plan should be bothersome for any parent.

I don't see a plan yet locally despite the very good school district we live in. I don't see a solid plan at the state level despite NH always ranking in the top 20% of state education results. Throw in the feds almost ignoring a commitment to getting this right. And school is supposed to begin in a matter of weeks for parts of the country and already has for some, which Smellytele pointed out hasn't exactly gone so well.

Open your eyes dude

You won't though. As always you'll dig your heels and find some angle to beat chest as the smartest guy in the room.

Reread my first sentence







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[deadheadskier]

Then shame on that school, because it's easy to enact, but frankly, no matter as it is really not the students who need the protecting.

This honestly really shouldn't be terribly hard. Something like as follows is entirely rational based on evidence-based medicine.

1) If a student lives in a home with a person >=60 (e.g. grandparent) that student gets home-schooled for the semester until 3 weeks post vaccination.

2) If a student lives in a home with anyone immunocompromised (any age), that student gets home-schooled for the semester until 3 weeks post vaccination.

3) If a student lives in a home with anyone with a comorbidity (any age), that student gets home-schooled for the semester until 3 weeks post vaccination.

4) Any teacher or teacher domiciling with a person falling into #1, #2, or #3 above stays home for the semester, and does not return until 3 weeks post vaccination.

5) All current, best practice, CDC recommended social distancing is followed.

6) Masks are worn in the classroom

You follow the above & probably 95% of kids and teachers could safely return to the classroom tomorrow.

CD points out real life reality

BG says no. Accept my imaginary reality

Sent from my motorola one action using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[Quietman]

How do we expect our younger children to social distance in schools hallways when adults refuse to, and won't wear masks? And this from Iowa, not Fl or TX!



https://www.vox.com/2020/8/8/21357625/covid-19-iowa-lakes-okoboji-kim-reynolds-masks

 

[Newpylong]

Then shame on that school, because it's easy to enact, but frankly, no matter as it is really not the students who need the protecting.

This honestly really shouldn't be terribly hard. Something like as follows is entirely rational based on evidence-based medicine.

1) If a student lives in a home with a person >=60 (e.g. grandparent) that student gets home-schooled for the semester until 3 weeks post vaccination.

2) If a student lives in a home with anyone immunocompromised (any age), that student gets home-schooled for the semester until 3 weeks post vaccination.

3) If a student lives in a home with anyone with a comorbidity (any age), that student gets home-schooled for the semester until 3 weeks post vaccination.

4) Any teacher or teacher domiciling with a person falling into #1, #2, or #3 above stays home for the semester, and does not return until 3 weeks post vaccination.

5) All current, best practice, CDC recommended social distancing is followed.

6) Masks are worn in the classroom

You follow the above & probably 95% of kids and teachers could safely return to the classroom tomorrow.

Wow it's that easy? Why isn't this thing squashed yet then? Maybe it's because the ringleader for the Barnum and Bailey circus of a Whitehouse only supported wearing mask 5 months after this thing began and makes statements such as: "this thing will go away on it's own". Sounds like science to me. Morale of the story, there has been little to no unified strategy to provide a solution to this issue. Unlike other countries who have since largely returned tk normal we have continued our fractured effort and the cases climb. And here were at today, with communities trying to formulate and enforce their own solution when the person at the top is more worried about bashing people on Twitter than setting a good example and doing their job.

 

[Smellytele]

Like I said there are people on here that know everything.


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[icecoast1]

Wow it's that easy? Why isn't this thing squashed yet then? Maybe it's because the ringleader for the Barnum and Bailey circus of a Whitehouse only supported wearing mask 5 months after this thing began and makes statements such as: "this thing will go away on it's own". Sounds like science to me. Morale of the story, there has been little to no unified strategy to provide a solution to this issue. Unlike other countries who have since largely returned tk normal we have continued our fractured effort and the cases climb. And here were at today, with communities trying to formulate and enforce their own solution when the person at the top is more worried about bashing people on Twitter than setting a good example and doing their job.

This narrative of the United States being the only country seeing an increase in cases is completely false, there are many countries around the world seeing an increase in cases, including many once touted as doing a far superior job to the US. Ironically (or maybe not) one of the countries not seeing a "surge" is Sweden, go figure.

 

[Not Sure]

Yesterday I saw a brother in law who had contracted Covid in early March . He's a postal worker mechanic who works a facility in Michigan . He's convinced he got it from a coworker who he was in close contact (3') with while working on a machine with for an hour or so . His facility had 2 deaths out of 15 cases . They had underlying health problems and in there 60's

Schools will definitely transmit the virus , maybe heard immunity will be increased but at a cost ? I don't think there are any easy answers for this evil scourge . Politicians shouldn't be using this for gain on either side .

My sons starting high school this year with a modified schedule , rotating 3 days at school and 2 days home (on line) then 2 days at school and 3 days at home . The school has 3k students ! It's attempt to buy more space between students but I think in the end won't make a difference . Tough time all around ,my neighbor works in the same school and is leaving her job as an aid . She's older and doesn't want to take the chance .

Just curious . What were anti-depressant sales like in Sweden?

 

[Newpylong]

This narrative of the United States being the only country seeing an increase in cases is completely false, there are many countries around the world seeing an increase in cases, including many once touted as doing a far superior job to the US. Ironically (or maybe not) one of the countries not seeing a "surge" is Sweden, go figure.

I hope you're referring to a narrative that is not mine. I said unlike "other countries", not every other country. Ones head would be in the sand thinking the US is the only one. But we are in the minority. Haven't seen any 200,000 person biker gatherings anywhere else. :roll:

 

[icecoast1]

I hope you're referring to a narrative that is not mine. I said unlike "other countries", not every other country. Ones head would be in the sand thinking the US is the only one. But we are in the minority. Haven't seen any 200,000 person biker gatherings anywhere else. :roll:

Countries around the world are seeing increases, but yeah, we're in the minority

 

[BenedictGomez]

How dense are you? It's obvious to almost everyone in numerous myriad ways except for yourself.

Nationally there has been no policy set forth on educational guidelines to Covid response because well.... Betsy Devos. Current federal policy leadership is unequivocally anti-science compared to any time in modern history. Yet you bang for a scientific response to drive policy and think it exists?

But, The feds have completely punted, so that's irrelevant.

So let's look at the states.

I have not seen a single unified State plan that guarantees no packed hallways and strict enforcement of social distancing. Even if there were such a thing, there's no language or investment guarantees in the resources needed to achieve it; which the vast majority of school districts in this country do not have.

It's hard enough to control adolescent behavior in schools during normal times, yet you some how feel EVERY school will have a plan for strict spacing and social distancing and that they will execute such correctly and effectively? While undermanned?

That's rich.

Holy fuck what a bubble of disconnected reality you live in. Yet you always profess to be AZs leader on scientific understanding and application.

Note (again): I'm not against kids going back to school. I just want to see a plan before I admit my child. That was the entirety of my point. Having to choose prior to fully knowing the plan should be bothersome for any parent.

I don't see a plan yet locally despite the very good school district we live in. I don't see a solid plan at the state level despite NH always ranking in the top 20% of state education results. Throw in the feds almost ignoring a commitment to getting this right. And school is supposed to begin in a matter of weeks for parts of the country and already has for some, which Smellytele pointed out hasn't exactly gone so well.

Open your eyes dude

You won't though. As always you'll dig your heels and find some angle to beat chest as the smartest guy in the room.

Reread my first sentence

Holy crap! You are one nasty, arrogant, unstable, S.O.B. This post/response is shocking, even by your standards.

I simply lay out what I think would be parts of a rational school solution which is the topic here, based on evidence-based medicine, and your reply is a 300 page War And Piece insult-laden disconnected, emotional, all-over-the-map, word salad.

I just found 1 more anti-depressant sale. Yikes!

 

[BenedictGomez]

Countries around the world are seeing increases, but yeah, we're in the minority

The weaponized politicization of this virus is ******* infuriating. As if this all wasn't a horrible & difficult situation enough, it just had to happen during an election year. I didnt think I could possibly lose more respect for politicians & the media, but here we are.....

 

[kbroderick]

Then shame on that school, because it's easy to enact, but frankly, no matter as it is really not the students who need the protecting.

...
5) All current, best practice, CDC recommended social distancing is followed.

6) Masks are worn in the classroom

You follow the above & probably 95% of kids and teachers could safely return to the classroom tomorrow.

And in what world is that possible?

I think 95% might be a little high—teacher demographics skew older and thus more likely to have other health issues—but the best-practice guidelines issued by the CDC are not achievable in our current schools without more staff and more space (which both translate to a lot more money). Had we been planning for opening with those guidelines since March and provided the funding, there's a chance we could have; without doing so, we're stuck in a position of limited openings (in place where community spread is limited) with a high likelihood of closing again during the school year.

Putting aside the spacing issue, one or two teachers needing to isolate for 14 days (or longer), on top of stricter "stay home if sick" guidelines, mean that we're going to run out of staff in most schools for non-trivial periods of time this school year. Schools are petri dishes, and I'd bet that most teachers have worked with minor cold symptoms...but it's no longer safe to assume that a cold is a cold, so even before your staff get Covid (which some likely will), you're going to loose a lot of in-person days to routine cold symptoms. And if you even have subs available, good luck with them being subject-matter experts in whatever class they happen to be teaching. In the ideal world, they'd be able implement whatever lesson plan was handed to them, but that's probably not reality in most places.

Given that likelihood, I'd argue that the first priority has to be making transition to remote learning as smooth as possible and making sure that both teachers and students are as prepared for such a possibility as they can be. Districts that have low-enough community transmission rates and high-enough testing rates (with low-enough positive rates) should, IMO, be reopening but with contingency plans in place based on the expectation, not just the possibility, that some portion of the coming year will need to remote due to changing local conditions.

 

[BenedictGomez]

It's already possible & happening around the globe.

Teacher demographics actually skew younger, not older. I have no idea what the average age of a teacher in the USA is, but I imagine it's something like 40 or so. Older teachers frequently retire or leave early or get "pushed-out" as they're near the top of the pay scale ( the "pushed-out" thing is lousy, but it happens ALL the time at my wife's school district).

You make an excellent point about the staff though, obviously if a teacher tests positive they'll be out-of-circulation for several weeks, but that's where the subs some in as you note. It should be a rare enough occurrence that I think it'd be manageable though, especially given the school reopening examples we can learn from in other nations which seem to be doing okay with this issue.

 

[kbroderick]

It's already possible & happening around the globe.

Teacher demographics actually skew younger, not older. I have no idea what the average age of a teacher in the USA is, but I imagine it's something like 40 or so. Older teachers frequently retire or leave early or get "pushed-out" as they're near the top of the pay scale ( the "pushed-out" thing is lousy, but it happens ALL the time at my wife's school district).

You make an excellent point about the staff though, obviously if a teacher tests positive they'll be out-of-circulation for several weeks, but that's where the subs some in as you note. It should be a rare enough occurrence that I think it'd be manageable though, especially given the school reopening examples we can learn from in other nations which seem to be doing okay with this issue.

Hmm...they seemed a lot older when I was actually in school, but that's probably perception. Average age of a public-school teacher nationwide is apparently 42.4 (https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/sass/tables/sass1112_2013314_t1s_002.asp).

It's tough to make comparisons around the globe when the per-capita case rates and positive testing percentages in the US (and particularly in certain parts of the US) are so much higher. As I said, I do think that it's plausible (and probably a good idea) for districts with low-to-no community spread to reopen. I don't think that's the case for places where community spread is a major issue.

I still think the sub availability is one of the biggest issues that isn't getting a lot of press. If it ends up being truly rare for a teacher to test positive, it may not be as big an impact as I think it is, but my guess is that even one or two mutli-week absences on top of the existing sub demand are going to make it a big issue. If you have a quarantine-after-exposure protocol and an infected teacher was in a break room or an out-of-school social event with other teachers, you have an exponentially bigger problem.

 

[cdskier]

Teacher demographics actually skew younger, not older. I have no idea what the average age of a teacher in the USA is, but I imagine it's something like 40 or so. Older teachers frequently retire or leave early or get "pushed-out" as they're near the top of the pay scale ( the "pushed-out" thing is lousy, but it happens ALL the time at my wife's school district).

42.6 in the entire US. And about 1/3 are 50 and over. 19% are 55+. Those numbers skew higher in New England (Maine, VT, and NH are all closer to 30% being 55+ and 40-45% being 50+) and average ages are also more in the mid to upper 40s.