Ski Resort Response to COVID-19

[drjeff]

With the amount of geographic overlap between the states that Epic and Ikon have resorts in, and more importantly the fact that there are multiple states, and those state department of health, where they both operate resorts in, I would be shocked if we don't hear some very similar, if not identical plan, put out there by IKON very soon.

The reality is that what EPIC put forth, seems to address the concerns when it comes to crowd management and indoor dining/building use that many states and their respective department of public health's have concern over. If IKON doesn't do something similar, and then the state has an issue with their operations, then mid season they're going to have to adjust, and retrain their staff and guests, which is likely far greater of a challenge then to start the season with a plan in place.

Like the regulations or not that the resorts have to operate under, those rules and regulations that the various states have put out there are what they have to abide by in this current COVID-19 era. I am guessing that both from a ski area management/operations standpoint as well as a guest usage perspective, having a plan in place from Day 1 of the season that *should* allow them to have a normal length season is the better way to go.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Stupid. Is some how it a health risk to make a mixed drink behind the plex, you have to open the beer or make a sandwich???

I hear stories like this & see examples of other similar nonsense weekly, and each time I think:

1) Is the business doing this just to make it "look" like they're "safe" even though they know it's completely meaningless?

2) Is the business doing this because they genuinely aren't aware of recent scientific knowledge advances related to COVID19?

And I never know the answer. But it puzzles me each time as I wonder.

 

[1dog]

Bit of both I think. Wear a mask that doesn't really stop Covid sized molecules 'cause it makes people feel better. If any of my businesses didn't follow ( and exceed) state and local protocols, we have enough customers and a few employees who would complain, or worse, call the media. We've already been outed by an employee to the local boards of health. When we called and they reviewed our protocols, they were impressed and said ' we get a few every day, because some employees just don't wanna go back to work.' Amazing.

 

[tnt1234]

Bit of both I think. Wear a mask that doesn't really stop Covid sized molecules 'cause it makes people feel better. If any of my businesses didn't follow ( and exceed) state and local protocols, we have enough customers and a few employees who would complain, or worse, call the media. We've already been outed by an employee to the local boards of health. When we called and they reviewed our protocols, they were impressed and said ' we get a few every day, because some employees just don't wanna go back to work.' Amazing.

Masks are proving very effective because they stop the droplets of moisture which carry the virus from leaving the infected persons mouth.

Least effective is an infected person and uninfected person, no mask.
Next best is infected no mask, uninfected, mask.
Better is Infected mask, uninfected no mask.
Best is both masked.

None is perfect, but the research clearly shows masks have been instrumental in slowing the spread of Covid.

 

[chuckstah]

I was at a restaurant/bar in MA a couple of days ago to pickup takeout. I went to the bar for a beer while waiting. They had tables for 2 setup along the bar per MA protocol. When I ordered a beer the bartender had to walk all the way around the bar and out onto the floor to serve me the beer instead of handing it to me from 3 feet away. This didn't seem to make any sense as there was much more movement and contact than needed. I wish they could simplify rules to ones that are logical, but I don't see it happening.

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[tnt1234]

I was at a restaurant/bar in MA a couple of days ago to pickup takeout. I went to the bar for a beer while waiting. They had tables for 2 setup along the bar per MA protocol. When I ordered a beer the bartender had to walk all the way around the bar and out onto the floor to serve me the beer instead of handing it to me from 3 feet away. This didn't seem to make any sense as there was much more movement and contact than needed. I wish they could simplify rules to ones that are logical, but I don't see it happening.

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It's definitely a learning curve situation for sure.

I can't really fathom the logic of making the bartender do all that.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Masks are proving very effective because they stop the droplets of moisture which carry the virus from leaving the infected persons mouth.

Least effective is an infected person and uninfected person, no mask.
Next best is infected no mask, uninfected, mask.
Better is Infected mask, uninfected no mask.
Best is both masked.

None is perfect, but the research clearly shows masks have been instrumental in slowing the spread of Covid.

We think.

As for the "research", I think you'd be shocked at just how lacking it actually is versus what you've been told.

 

[kbroderick]

We think.

As for the "research", I think you'd be shocked at just how lacking it actually is versus what you've been told.

Yes, it's very much a preponderance of the available evidence, not proof, but there's minimal downside to wearing masks, so even if the net effect is a small decrease in replication numbers, why not just do it?

If not for the ethical issues, it would be easy to test--put one contagious and seven uninfected people in a small room with minimal airflow for, say, 20 minutes, with the uninfected having a variety of masks (from nothing, buffs, surgical and N95). Repeat a few times with different people, isolate everyone for 14 days afterwards with daily testing, and see what you get. But, as I said, that's not really ethical with a disease that can be fatal, even if you test with politicians.

 

[tnt1234]

We think.

As for the "research", I think you'd be shocked at just how lacking it actually is versus what you've been told.

That's not true. There is a ton of evidence that masks are effective at limiting the transmission of COVID.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Yes, it's very much a preponderance of the available evidence, not proof, but there's minimal downside to wearing masks, so even if the net effect is a small decrease in replication numbers, why not just do it?

I agree. I was the one early-on saying we should wear masks like many Asian nations, but my point is there's very little actual research backing it up at this point. I've even seen a study which presents a brilliantly simple & plausible ulterior reason why those Asian nations fared better that had nothing to do with masks, which was rather intriguing. But yes, I do agree with mask use.

That's not true. There is a ton of evidence that masks are effective at limiting the transmission of COVID.

It is 100% true. Again, I agree with mask use, my point is, you're confusing what you're "hearing" on TV with actual scientific proof, which is in fact, quite lacking. What you're hearing is anecdotal evidence, like the nail parlor with the two COVID19+ techs that didn't spread the virus to any of their clients who agreed to contact tracing (those who refuse contact tracing are a-holes IMO, but I digress).

At the end of the day, 3 years from now when all the data are fully studied & statistically digested, will I be surprised if masks weren't effective at preventing COVID19 transmission? Yes. Will I be shocked if masks weren't effective at preventing COVID19 transmission? No. I've seen far too many examples of correlation not equaling causation in my career to be shocked.

 

[tnt1234]

Well, I don't know...when I google it, I see a bunch of studies....

But I get your point. I'm pretty confident that masks make a difference. Everything from common sense to the cover infection trends in areas with and without mask mandates points to it. Along with the studies I see on my google machine.

 

[skef]

COVID 2020-21 Operations Round Up #1

 

[tnt1234]

COVID 2020-21 Operations Round Up #1

I wonder what they mean by facemarks outside? Are balaclava's or ski face masks acceptable? I don't believe they are nearly as effective. But I'm trying to imagine putting my cloth mask on at the end of a run to stand in the lift line...mittens off, helmet off, mask on...

I'll do whatever they ask, and appreciate the effort to stay safe and open. I'm just wondering....

 

[jimmywilson69]

I believe a standard ski face covering will be acceptable. as long as it is truly a covering. Some actually have holes in them like the neoprene masks I've seen.

I've secured some buffs for this winter, as I typically don't wear a face covering when I ski unless its 15 or colder. That's what facial hair is for

 

[mister moose]

I wonder what they mean by facemarks outside?

I believe a standard ski face covering will be acceptable. as long as it is truly a covering. Some actually have holes in them like the neoprene masks I've seen.

What about those masks that have the exhale valve right in the front? I cringe every time I see those.

 

[zoomzoom]

cloth facial coverings / masks are intended to protect others, to some degree.
N95 masks (with exhaust port in front) are intended to protect the user.

mask effectiveness, by type
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449

 

[tnt1234]

cloth facial coverings / masks are intended to protect others, to some degree.
N95 masks (with exhaust port in front) are intended to protect the user.

mask effectiveness, by type
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449

Understood. But where do ski face masks and neck gators fall into the mix? I know buffs are considered way less effective at protecting others than close masks.

 

[machski]

Understood. But where do ski face masks and neck gators fall into the mix? I know buffs are considered way less effective at protecting others than close masks.

But buffs check the box, no cloth mask is silver bullet here.

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[BenedictGomez]

cloth facial coverings / masks are intended to protect others, to some degree.

And if you can tell me with a scientifically valid reason why they dont also protect the wearer, I'm all ears!

 

[drjeff]

And if you can tell me with a scientifically valid reason why they dont also protect the wearer, I'm all ears!

I'm ears as well....

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