Ski technique

[jack97]

Who advocates this? :blink: I don't think anyone is teaching this. No matter what kind of turn you are making, it's important to keep your upper body squared to the fall line. You guys are just spotting beginning and intermediate skiers with bad form.

The clinic leader was from PSIA-E. While booting up at the lodge, a couple of instructors from WA was attending this clinic. BTW, they spent most of the time on Profile, Zoomer and Rocket. They didn't go on Avalanche (I always confuse zoomer with this).

Also, check out the three montages of this post from epic. Notice the upper body and hip position, during the transition, they are facing the direction of the tips. For medium to large radius turns they advocate releasing and engaging from this position to ensure clean lines or more importantly; clean release and strong edge engagement. BTW(2), B Barnes who started this thread is a PSIA-RM examiner.

http://forums.epicski.com/showpost.php?p=713665&postcount=1


BTW(3), by saying this, I am not saying that this was derived by the racing community.

 

[wa-loaf]

The clinic leader was from PSIA-E. While booting up at the lodge, a couple of instructors from WA was attending this clinic. BTW, they spent most of the time on Profile, Zoomer and Rocket. They didn't go on Avalanche (I always confuse zoomer with this).

Also, check out the three montages of this post from epic. Notice the upper body and hip position, during the transition, they are facing the direction of the tips. For medium to large radius turns they advocate releasing and engaging from this position to ensure clean lines or more importantly; clean release and strong edge engagement. BTW(2), B Barnes who started this thread is a PSIA-RM examiner.

http://forums.epicski.com/showpost.php?p=713665&postcount=1

Lots of info (and acronyms I'm not familiar with) there to digest, but I can see where you guys are coming from.

 

[jack97]

.... but I can see where you guys are coming from.

The montages speaks a thousands words and sometimes that's not enuf. I didn't mean to be shadowing the clinic up at cannon, but every time I went to a new trail, they would be coming up the lift, seems like all their eyes was on me or other skiers on the trail... anyways, it seems that the focus on the clinic was holding the transition as long as possible since it takes time to engage the new dh ski, otherwise the tails will wash out. IMO, the dead give away for this turn is the direction of the hip and a lengthy time in transition.

 

[koreshot]

Wow, this is some indepth technique analysis.

I have never had an instructor tell me drag my poles or not point my body down the fall line. So the skiers you are seeing I guess are just being lazy and found a way to ski well and have fun with that style.

The whole concept of what is "proper" technique is a little shady anyway. You will see skiers out there with sound but not perfect technique, but if they rip and are having fun, who cares? I keep making the example of Hugo Harrison - one of the fastest, if not the fastest big mountain skiers around. If you ask most experienced skiers and instructors, they would immediately point out his "poor" technique - he sits pretty far back they will say. Yet they would all give their left nut to ski like him.

 

[Edd]

The whole concept of what is "proper" technique is a little shady anyway. You will see skiers out there with sound but not perfect technique, but if they rip and are having fun, who cares? I keep making the example of Hugo Harrison - one of the fastest, if not the fastest big mountain skiers around. If you ask most experienced skiers and instructors, they would immediately point out his "poor" technique - he sits pretty far back they will say. Yet they would all give their left nut to ski like him.

I agree. Again, those skiers did appear to be in control and some of them were laying rails. Who's to say they're screwing anything up?

 

[Hawkshot99]

Bode Miller supposedly has horrible technique, yet he does awesome. So what is to say that maybe everyone else has the poor technique....:wink::lol:

I notice that when I am skiing hard short turns, I load up on my tails, yet am completely in control.

 

[Greg]

I'm probably one of the sloppiest skiers around and the carving purists would surly laugh at me. I also have never taken a lesson so perhaps there's a connection there. I know when it feels right though so I just keep plugging away at it. No replacement for simply logging the miles.

 

[jack97]

Bode Miller supposedly has horrible technique, yet he does awesome. So what is to say that maybe everyone else has the poor technique....:wink::lol:

I respectfully disagree, here's a youtube link of Miller and McNichol sport sckool series showing the basic. Miller has technique, he looks out of control b/c he takes so many chances.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KAtSx0SnPs

 

[jack97]

BTW, here's a vid from epic that stirred up traffic during the summer. The skier with blue/dark jacket and light pants, IMO a great vid of short turns,

http://video.epicski.com/ref/cannonballsmall.wmv

 

[wa-loaf]

BTW, here's a vid from epic that stirred up traffic during the summer. The skier with blue/dark jacket and light pants, IMO a great vid of short turns,

http://video.epicski.com/ref/cannonballsmall.wmv

Both looked pretty good to me. What got people wound up?

 

[jack97]

Both looked pretty good to me. What got people wound up?

iirc, the vid on the short turn....
1. the up/down movement, whether this was excessive or not
2. and whether that was a result of up unweighting of the old dh ski or the rebound of the ski.
3. whether the short radius turns can be achieved without the excessive rotation of the femur.

funny stuff... it kept me amused in the summer months or when I pulled up lamed with the busted collar.

 

[wa-loaf]

1. the up/down movement, whether this was excessive or not

No?

2. and whether that was a result of up unweighting of the old dh ski or the rebound of the ski.

A bit of both?

3. whether the short radius turns can be achieved without the excessive rotation of the femur.

whats excessive?

:lol:

I guess it's good the PSIA guys are thinking about this stuff, but they need to get out and have some fun.

 

[kbroderick]

Forcing the upper body square down the fall line is not modern technique in larger turns. If you watch World Cup skiers in medium-radius or larger turns (i.e. GS turns or bigger), their upper bodies do turn with their skis. They don't come out of the fall line much, but neither do their skis.

For example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTboYL8CjaU&feature=related

If you watch the transition between turns, the skiers do not counter and force their upper bodies to face downhill. It's tough to see in motion, but if you pause the video at strategic times and look at body position, it's pretty apparent. The shoulders, hips, knees, and shins are all in parallel planes and moving in the same direction. The upper body stays open, but it isn't forced to face down the fall line.

In smaller-radius turns, the transition is so quick that it's even tougher to see, but the general theory is the same.

 

[jack97]

3. whether the short radius turns can be achieved without the excessive rotation of the femur.

whats excessive?

:lol:

I guess it's good the PSIA guys are thinking about this stuff, but they need to get out and have some fun.

There are some who believe that forced rotation of the femur is a necessary part of a turn, especially in the short radius or when directing the ski into a turn. Others believe that the rotation is a by product of properly weighting and engaging the ski..... then it becomes on war on words and ideology.

 

[jack97]

For example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTboYL8CjaU&feature=related

If you watch the transition between turns, the skiers do not counter and force their upper bodies to face downhill. It's tough to see in motion, but if you pause the video at strategic times and look at body position, it's pretty apparent. The shoulders, hips, knees, and shins are all in parallel planes and moving in the same direction. The upper body stays open, but it isn't forced to face down the fall line.

Yes, I would agree with that.... but with the PSIA approach, you don't need slo mo to see, it's apparent to the naked eye.

 

[Marc]

Wow, this is some indepth technique analysis.

I have never had an instructor tell me drag my poles or not point my body down the fall line. So the skiers you are seeing I guess are just being lazy and found a way to ski well and have fun with that style.

The whole concept of what is "proper" technique is a little shady anyway. You will see skiers out there with sound but not perfect technique, but if they rip and are having fun, who cares? I keep making the example of Hugo Harrison - one of the fastest, if not the fastest big mountain skiers around. If you ask most experienced skiers and instructors, they would immediately point out his "poor" technique - he sits pretty far back they will say. Yet they would all give their left nut to ski like him.

Kinda like how you gave your nuts to your wife to ski like him... haven't seen the results yet...

 

[koreshot]

Kinda like how you gave your nuts to your wife to ski like him... haven't seen the results yet...

Well, it helped get me closer. I now ski back seat. Just need to work on all the other aspects of extreme skiing now.

You should try it some time... Justin is a good candidate.

 

[bigbog]

...?

Let's see....now I have no clue as to what I should be doing on the descent!;-) ...and with Marc's --> ;-) "Kinda like how you gave your nuts to your wife to ski like him... haven't seen the results yet..." the thread seems to have progressed to somewhere else since I reaplied from page #1.. :lol: :lol: :lol:...

 

[mattchuck2]

I hate it when instructors say something and then people take that word as gospel for whatever situation they find themselves in.

Instructors love to tell people to keep the upper body facing down the hill (probably with some instructor trick like "Frame something downhill with your poles"), but then they don't mention that this is only for short turns. Short turns require a turning lower body countered against a stable upper body.

Longer radius turns work best when there is a little movement with the ski. So it's perfectly fine to face the direction of travel when cranking out medium to long radius turns.

 

[koreshot]

Longer radius turns work best when there is a little movement with the ski. So it's perfectly fine to face the direction of travel when cranking out medium to long radius turns.

I would probaby agree with this. I have never obcessed about the whole angulation stuff for long turns. That type of stance almost forces you into a short turn - another thing most instructors love to focus on.

There are very few instructors that will encourage you to go flying down a hill in superG types of turns...unfortunately.