Skiing around newbies

[ctenidae]

I know, dmc. Boarders get a bad rap for a lot of things, mostly unfairly. It's not all boarders who do things, especially like sitting in the middle of the trail. I know it's tough to stand still ona baord, so you sit or kneel. That's cool. You do it right- on the side, which is the same place stopped skiiers ought to be.
I was at Sunapee Saturday, and at the intersection where Upper Blastoff becomes Lower Balstoff, a group of boarders were spread across the whole trail. We didn't go back on that trail for a couple of hours (crowded as all get out), but when we ran it again, the same group was there again. Worse this time, because the trail had gotten pretty scraped down, so maneuverability was hampered a bit. It makes for hairy moments.

 

[dmc]

We didn't go back on that trail for a couple of hours (crowded as all get out), but when we ran it again, the same group was there again. Worse this time, because the trail had gotten pretty scraped down, so maneuverability was hampered a bit. It makes for hairy moments.

They were waiting for a hit... It was a crowded weekend on the East Coast...

I ski and tele as well.... I see bad things frm all sides...

Fact is... Ski, Telemark Skis and boards all have inherent differences... You either learn to deal or not... I could complain about something about everyone if I want... But - I generally don't - and share the trail...

 

[tirolerpeter]

Sharing the trail

Hey dmc justifying snowboarders sitting spread out across the trail because the are "waiting for a hit" is BS. The "hit" they get might be from behind as another skier or boarder comes over a rise and finds them lounging! I have no problem sharing any terrain with boarders. I am aware that many (especially less experienced ones) are likely to take highly erratic lines down the hill. Many just have to "follow their board" wherever it takes them. OK, in time they will actually be able to pick their own path just as skiers learn control as they advance. BUT, they can just as well stretch out along the edge of the trail. Like many inconsiderate skiers, they just like to cluster and BS while resting or screwing up their courage. This is not a pro-skier vs. pro-boarder issue. This is just about common sense. I believe this quest for "hits" should be done in Terrain Parks. Isn't that why they have developed them?

 

[dmc]

Re: Sharing the trail

Hey dmc justifying snowboarders sitting spread out across the trail because the are "waiting for a hit" is BS. The "hit" they get might be from behind as another skier or boarder comes over a rise and finds them lounging! I have no problem sharing any terrain with boarders. I am aware that many (especially less experienced ones) are likely to take highly erratic lines down the hill. Many just have to "follow their board" wherever it takes them. OK, in time they will actually be able to pick their own path just as skiers learn control as they advance. BUT, they can just as well stretch out along the edge of the trail. Like many inconsiderate skiers, they just like to cluster and BS while resting or screwing up their courage. This is not a pro-skier vs. pro-boarder issue. This is just about common sense. I believe this quest for "hits" should be done in Terrain Parks. Isn't that why they have developed them?

Sounds like you got it all together as far as what you want things to be like...
Good for you... Enjoy!

 

[dmc]

Re: Sharing the trail

I believe this quest for "hits" should be done in Terrain Parks.

I guess we'll just have to groom everything flat as a pancake...
that will keep the problems at bay...

It's funny... I never have complained ONCE about bump skiers gathering at the top of bump runs... But come to think of it - they are in MY way...

I think I'll write a letter.... And complain...

 

[Greg]

This article is sort of on topic here:

http://news.alpinezone.com/2863/

 

[tirolerpeter]

Go with the flow

Hey Greg I think you are right. The article is right on point. When slopes are busy, there are sufficient natural hazards and events (like people who may fall) to interrupt the "flow" of traffic. Just deciding to hang out in the middle of a trail is just plain selfish. dmc I believe you missed my point. I don't care if a trail is groomed or not. In fact, I fly out west as often as I can so that I can ski lots of natural ungroomed terrain like the 49" powder dump I enjoyed Dec 7-12 at Alta, Snowbird, and Brighton and, when there is no avalanch danger some "out of bounds" fun. Unless you have stuck your skiis into the snow as a warning to others while you assist an injured person, there is simply no valid reason to make yourself an intentional obstacle in the center of a trail.

 

[Greg]

I actually prefer it when folks stop in the middle of the trail because I rarely ski there!

 

[dmc]

Re: Go with the flow

dmc I believe you missed my point. I don't care if a trail is groomed or not. In fact, I fly out west as often as I can so that I can ski lots of natural ungroomed terrain like the 49" powder dump I enjoyed Dec 7-12 at Alta, Snowbird, and Brighton and, when there is no avalanch danger some "out of bounds" fun. Unless you have stuck your skiis into the snow as a warning to others while you assist an injured person, there is simply no valid reason to make yourself an intentional obstacle in the center of a trail.

Yeah - me too... And when I'm out west and I tend to stop to wait for drops and stuff to clear out... Just like I wait for a terrain feature to clear out in the east...

Why are you SO down on people using terrain features outside the park??
Is it REALLY that much of a problem??? Seriously...

So I get your point - It just sounds like whining to me...

 

[ctenidae]

I don't think anyone has a problem with using terrain outside the park. The problem is with large groups piled up hanging around. I understand if you're waiting for a stretch to clear out. We all do that. My problem is with groups of 10 or 15 people sitting around, packs off, in themiddle of the trail/intersection. if you're waiting for hits with 3-4 people, fine, but don't make a picnic of it. It's not just boarders, it's people in general. Same sort of people who walk on the sidewalk 5 abreast, then all stop and stand blockign the path. It's just inconsiderate of others. I'd rather go ski some other trail than wait around for twenty other people to go down in front of me.

Just sayin'...

 

[dmc]

I don't think anyone has a problem with using terrain outside the park. The problem is with large groups piled up hanging around. I understand if you're waiting for a stretch to clear out. We all do that. My problem is with groups of 10 or 15 people sitting around, packs off, in themiddle of the trail/intersection. if you're waiting for hits with 3-4 people, fine, but don't make a picnic of it. It's not just boarders, it's people in general. Same sort of people who walk on the sidewalk 5 abreast, then all stop and stand blockign the path. It's just inconsiderate of others. I'd rather go ski some other trail than wait around for twenty other people to go down in front of me.

Just sayin'...

tirolerpeter has a different opinion... Apparently if i stop on a trail I need to have crossed skis...

I've never seen a group of 10-15 people hanging out before/ outside the park that is
I assume Ski Patrol would clear that out at Hunter at least.....

If I saw 10-15 people on a trail - I'd tell them to move...

 

[tirolerpeter]

Stopping on trail.

OK ..last try. I didn't say you shouldn't stop, or indulge in "hits," I said not to do it in a way that creates an obstruction to the flow of other skiers or boarders. "finis"

 

[dmc]

Re: Stopping on trail.

OK ..last try. I didn't say you shouldn't stop, or indulge in "hits," I said not to do it in a way that creates an obstruction to the flow of other skiers or boarders. "finis"

What does "finis" mean?? Finished?? Not hardly...

You said

Unless you have stuck your skiis into the snow as a warning to others while you assist an injured person, there is simply no valid reason to make yourself an intentional obstacle in the center of a trail.

I think your wrong... I will continue to stop in the trail when I'm waiting for a terrain feature or a bump line...
I will not be blocking a trail by creating an obstruction.... I'm one guy.. and trails are generally pretty big...

Watch out for me... I'll be standing there... smiling... Not bothering anyone - except you....

Now finis...

If you can't get around me in that instance then - too bad...

 

[ctenidae]

I said "cluster of snowboarders," meaning more than one. The group at Sunapee had about 15 members. Different from the 8-10 who sat around a lift pole you couldn't get near, anyway.
If you, alone, or even 3-4 people, are in a group, and visible, there's no problem. I can't imagine you'd agree it's safe or wise to have a largish group in the middle of an intersection.

 

[riverc0il]

I actually prefer it when folks stop in the middle of the trail because I rarely ski there!

word. most upper level skiers that realize the center of the trail gets scraped stay to the sides. often when i'm skiing the side of the trail and spot someone above me skiing down the side, i push myself more into the center to give the downhill skier the line they obviously want.

when it's just one skier stopping on an empty trail, there really isn't a pressing need to be to the side. but rather when a lot of skiers are stopped together it makes navigation easier if they are off to the side lined up vertical instead of horizontal forming a wall.

 

[madman]

we were all neubies at some point. people ski like they drive. the more experience they get the more they know how to react. the only way to avoid a cluster f ### is to ski mid week. it is worth the use of sick or vacation time

 

[GadgetRick]

Hmm...

Had to comment on this:

I'm a snowboarder.... And I hang out on the side of the trail... I kneel cause I can't balance when I stop due to being on one board...
I rarely see boarders in the middle of the trail unless they are waiting for a hit...

We get a bad rap with this one...

Well, I can't group all riders into this category but in no way is this a bad rap. I can't tell you how often we (as patrollers) have to ask riders to, "Please move to the sides of the trails if you're stopping." The problem, as you expained, is riders must sit down/kneel down when stopped. This poses a serious problem as it reduces your size and makes it tougher to see you.

Now, there are many riders who DO sit on the sides and, again, I'm not lumping all riders into that category but it is a problem. People don't realize they're doing it. They're not going it just to bother people.

As far as skiing around newer skiers goes, many people forget, when skiing on a busy day you really shouldn't be bombing down through a bunch of people (newbies or experieced). If it's crowded like that you really should be skiing slower or skiing on a less crowded trail.

With that said, it's not just newbies who do this sort of thing. As many have mentioned it's not always the fact that someone is new to skiing, rather, it's got more to do with common sense. It seems many people lack common sense these days and don't think about their surroundings. I've seen expert skiers do this sort of thing as well as newbies. The bottom line is we all have to be careful when over taking another skier on any trail.

 

[dmc]

Re: Hmm...

Now, there are many riders who DO sit on the sides and, again, I'm not lumping all riders into that category but it is a problem. People don't realize they're doing it. They're not going it just to bother people.

I ride with my friends in Patrol all the time... They just ski up to people waiting for hits and ask them to move over or consolidate

Another problem I find when I'm snowboarding is sometimes I'm forced to stop by the lift ramp...
It's not that i want to...
But sometimes - I find - skiers stand around at the top chatting.. I try and skate past them to get to a place to strap in... But I don't want to pss anyone off by pushing through... So I tend to take the path of least resistance...

I do ask them to move but usually i get a nasty look...

 

[hammer]

Re: Hmm...

Another problem I find when I'm snowboarding is sometimes I'm forced to stop by the lift ramp...
It's not that i want to...
But sometimes - I find - skiers stand around at the top chatting.. I try and skate past them to get to a place to strap in... But I don't want to pss anyone off by pushing through... So I tend to take the path of least resistance...

I do ask them to move but usually i get a nasty look...

Crowding the top to chat, blocking others, and then being offended if someone needs to get by...now that's being inconsiderate. :x

One thing I'd really like to see less of is an "us versus them" mentality between skiers and snowboarders. If someone's a jerk, then they're a jerk, no matter what they are going down the slopes on.

In my limited experience, I've seen good and bad behavior from both skiers and riders.

 

[dmc]

Re: Hmm...

Another problem I find when I'm snowboarding is sometimes I'm forced to stop by the lift ramp...
It's not that i want to...
But sometimes - I find - skiers stand around at the top chatting.. I try and skate past them to get to a place to strap in... But I don't want to pss anyone off by pushing through... So I tend to take the path of least resistance...

I do ask them to move but usually i get a nasty look...

Crowding the top to chat, blocking others, and then being offended if someone needs to get by...now that's being inconsiderate. :x

One thing I'd really like to see less of is an "us versus them" mentality between skiers and snowboarders. If someone's a jerk, then they're a jerk, no matter what they are going down the slopes on.

In my limited experience, I've seen good and bad behavior from both skiers and riders.

I snowboard, ski and tele..... So I've seen it all...
Your correct - a jerk is a jerk...