Skiing is back!

[EPB]

Your right. I am sorry I did simplify greatly on what were saying. You have provided data and numbers that are all very thought out. You have made a hypothesis, supported it with fact and came up with a reasoned conclusion. But, for me on this particular situation it is simple. If there is a chance I could either die or infect the ones I love that is enough of a reason. I've seen what can happen. I could not live with the prospect of killing someone I love because I was either reckless or thought I was low risk or what ever. killing myself skiing or biking or doing dangerous shit is my choice. It is just me. This thing kills others and shitty part is you just don't know. I hope you live safe and clean for a long time and proove me wrong but I really feel the odds are changing, even as we speak. This coming fall and winter will define everything as we go forward. We will see.

No worries. I have no idea when I'll feel comfortable seeing my parents again. Selfishly it would be great news if it turns out they got it and beat it a few months ago, but we'll see. That said, my wife has a few family members in the 80+ cohort, which will be especially tough to navigate.

My guess is we'll get back to a "new normal" which will include lots of masks, wider distancing and lots of sanitation sooner rather than later. Hopefully, it doesn't blow up in our collective faces.

Stay strong. Again, you have my condolences. What you experienced is tragedy.

 

[machski]

So what about the guy i knew that died and was in great shape with no preexisting conditions? he made it to the hospital, got care, declined and then checked out. I bet he was in better shape than you. So you are in total denial that you could possibly have a bad reaction to this? You make is sound like you are immune. That is my problem. Sadly, eventually someone on here is going to pay. I have no idea who but it will happen. I bet next fall when this comes back and 10 fold.

Unfortunately Hawk, with a novel virus, its not necessarily how fit you are from an athletic standpoint or body, its the interior anatomy fitness. Namely, a person's immune system and most of us have no clue how fit/robust ours is to deal with this virus. So yes, if one gets the virus it is a bit of Russian roulette as you have no idea the quality of the round in the chamber so to speak.

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[p_levert]

Oh, gimme a break. Then rather than being passive aggressive, whiny, and temperamental, use the "ignore" feature. Too rude?

Let's see, Eastern Powder Baby "I have no idea if you did and am happy to take your word for it. I hope we get one ASAP, too.".

Then there's you: "rather than being passive aggressive, whiny, and temperamental, use the "ignore" feature."

Who would be the rude dude? BTW, no sign of an apology for attributing something to me that I didn't say.

We do have a problem with these threads. Sooner or later, they get toxic. Then they get deleted. And I think this is a shame because it's a worthy topic. It's a good thing that we have people from different situations that don't necessarily agree.

So what do we do? How about BenedictGomez self-quarantines from posting on CV-19 for a month? I bet this fixes the problem.

 

[JimG.]

All we seem to talk about is the death and sickness. There is so much more to this than that.

How about my youngest son who is a senior in high school and who has not seen his friends or teachers since mid-March? Who will not go to a prom or even a commencement for his graduation? He'll get a diploma in the mail. And now he has to decide which of his remaining 2 college choices to attend...oh wait, he might not get to attend this fall. And even if he goes he has the real prospect of spending time at home in front of a computer for online classes. Which is not college at all and a total waste of money. How do you think he feels?

Or my oldest son who started a new job in late January only to be laid off late last month? It's already hard enough for young people to make their way in life. This is making it impossible!

I already hear the "wow talk about first world problems" chorus but I don't care. It is just as important to consider the lives of the young, healthy and unaffected as it is to protect the vulnerable. What really pisses me off is that most of this nationwide (not this specific AZ forum thread) conversation is treated as just another discussion of partisan politics. It seems nobody wants to see the totality of the mess that has been created!

Frankly we are all hopeless.

 

[BenedictGomez]

no sign of an apology for attributing something to me that I didn't say.
We do have a problem with these threads. Sooner or later, they get toxic. Then they get deleted.

You once mentioned how "experts" said it would be a very long time before a vaccine was available in the thread was deleted, I presumed that meant you agreed. But fine, I'll apologize if you makes you feel better. Doesn't change the fact you post factually incorrect doom & gloom COVID19 information here. Two days ago took the cake when you posted something obviously known to be false by anyone following COVID19 even remotely closely & then you yourself immediately posted a link demonstrating you were incorrect. That was a doozy. And no, we dont have "a problem" with these threads getting deleted. Deleted threads are extremely rare on AZ, and almost never happen (which is a good thing).

So what do we do? How about BenedictGomez self-quarantines from posting on CV-19 for a month?

So what do we do? How about you get some tummy-time or simply ignore me. Seriously, are you 12?

 

[BenedictGomez]

Frankly we are all hopeless.

I'm actually quite hopeful.

The nation as a whole is coming down from COVID19, and the NYC epicenter is making great strides in terms of lower death, lowering hospitalizations, etc. Much of the nation is managing quite well or barely effected, and the #1 goal of ensuring hospitals do not get overrun like Italy & other parts of Europe has been achieved. That was supposed to be an absolute major point of all this!

Now In terms of everything you mentioned about being locked at home like a zoo animal, I agree with you 100%.

But here's the good news.

We cant continue that path even if we wanted to. People would literally begin to starve. Literally. So I'm fairly convinced the, "self quarantine & close all businesses until 2038" crowd is going to lose out soon, as it will simply become an untenable intellectual position to have if it frankly isn't already. There are relatively unaffected parts of America where the populace is I think justifiably approaching lanterns & pitchforks status. And most importantly, the science simply isn't on their draconian side. Better days are ahead. My 2¢.

 

[ScottySkis]

Let's see, Eastern Powder Baby "I have no idea if you did and am happy to take your word for it. I hope we get one ASAP, too.".

Then there's you: "rather than being passive aggressive, whiny, and temperamental, use the "ignore" feature."

Who would be the rude dude? BTW, no sign of an apology for attributing something to me that I didn't say.

We do have a problem with these threads. Sooner or later, they get toxic. Then they get deleted. And I think this is a shame because it's a worthy topic. It's a good thing that we have people from different situations that don't necessarily agree.

So what do we do? How about BenedictGomez self-quarantines from posting on CV-19 for a month? I bet this fixes the problem.

I agree all this stuff keep most people not into this AZ is crazy talk on others ski forum s
I agree
They will not listen to reasonable people so I done caring about it
Other than 2 other threads here I have no interest on this sad site

 

[chuckstah]

Original subject before all the bullshit, Timberline Lodge on Mount Hood is reopening Friday. Hopefully they can do it successfully.

https://www.kptv.com/news/timberlin...cle_928bb138-94c2-11ea-aa37-ef3b20a4d867.html


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[icecoast1]

All we seem to talk about is the death and sickness. There is so much more to this than that.

How about my youngest son who is a senior in high school and who has not seen his friends or teachers since mid-March? Who will not go to a prom or even a commencement for his graduation? He'll get a diploma in the mail. And now he has to decide which of his remaining 2 college choices to attend...oh wait, he might not get to attend this fall. And even if he goes he has the real prospect of spending time at home in front of a computer for online classes. Which is not college at all and a total waste of money. How do you think he feels?

The education side of this is one of the many situations where the cure may be becoming worse than the problem. Many kids have already checked out for the year, the distance learning seems to be a joke for many of them. Good luck getting them to take school seriously after another few months of "vacation" if they're still trying this in the fall. This could be a huge long term problem if they don't figure out a way of getting kids back to school.

 

[VTKilarney]

I could not live with the prospect of killing someone I love because I was either reckless or thought I was low risk or whatever.

So you have never driven an automobile with a passenger?

As much as it may make you uncomfortable, society makes these sorts of determinations ALL OF THE TIME.

For example, the age group most likely to die in a car accident are 80-90 year olds. Lots of them die every year. And yet we build highways and allow people to drive.

Fortunately, we do not base these decisions on emotionally driven anecdotes. We weight the costs and benefits. At a certain point, the cost of locking down the economy is going to be greater than the cost in lives. That's the simple reality.

 

[Hawk]

Good rationality. But I drive very conservatively. I would never be the cause of killing someone I care about while I am driving. It would be some other idiot and not on me. If I get sick because I ignore the obvious threat that is here in the Mass and infect someone else, that would be on me. Believe me you are fine in your little world up there in Northern VT. You will be able or go out safely sometime soon. It is not that way down here. But guess what. I am headed your way very soon to Kingdom trails. I will make sure to come see you and give you a big kiss. LOL How about that.

 

[VTKilarney]

Good rationality. But I drive very conservatively. I would never be the cause of killing someone I care about while I am driving. It would be some other idiot and not on me.

With all due respect, there is quite a bit of arrogance in the absolutism of your statement. Some of the most conservative drivers make mistakes. We are human, after all. In any event, I don't think that your dead passenger would really care if you were at fault or if "some other idiot" was at fault. By driving, you are the one who exposed them to that "other idiot."

But you have actually proven my point. When it comes to driving, you weigh the pros and cons and act accordingly. Driving is a risky activity that could kill yourself or a loved one - and yet you do it.

Do you disagree with my contention that at a certain point the cost of locking down the economy will be greater than the cost in human lives?

 

[Hawk]

I have hardly proved your point. No the difference is that I would not blame myself for that accident. My rage would be pointed at the idiot. It would not even occur to me that is was my fault.

Also there will never be a point were human life is less valuable than money. I think this is where we differ in theology. Let me clue you in. People are resilient. The world made it through the depression which lasted for the better part of 10 years. Don't try and tell me that we have to open back up so people can go skiing and go to restaurants and get back all our 1st world luxuries at that cost of lives. That is going to kill more people. No it is you that has the tone of arrogance safe and sound up there in sparely populated norther kingdom.

There is no sense in arguing any more. This is just like the politics of today. There will always and only be two side.

 

[VTKilarney]

I have hardly proved your point. No the difference is that I would not blame myself for that accident. My rage would be pointed at the idiot. It would not even occur to me that is was my fault.

I see. It's not about a life being lost, it's only about who gets the blame. Interesting take.

Also there will never be a point were human life is less valuable than money.

You don't even believe what you are saying. If you did, you wouldn't drive, you wouldn't burn fossil fuels, you wouldn't use chemical cleaners, etc. But you do. So stop pretending to be virtuous when you don't walk the walk.

Regardless of what you think, society doesn't think the way you do. You need to accept that.

You owe it to yourself to read this article so you can understand how the world actually works.
https://www.marketplace.org/2019/03/20/how-value-life/

 

[Hawk]

I have to say. You are an expert of twisting it around. You should apply for a job in the current administration. I am not going to waist any more time talking to someone who is diametrically opposed to me. We will never see eye to eye. You are right about one thing only. Some of Society does not think like I do. That is fine. I guess it's just the people that I surround myself with and others down here in the thick of it and places like NYC. I will now go back and hunker down with my family and friends and wait this thing out and watch the results. I hope it gets better.

 

[VTKilarney]

I have to say. You are an expert of twisting it around. You should apply for a job in the current administration. I am not going to waist any more time talking to someone who is diametrically opposed to me. We will never see eye to eye. You are right about one thing only. Some of Society does not think like I do. That is fine. I guess it's just the people that I surround myself with and others down here in the thick of it and places like NYC. I will now go back and hunker down with my family and friends and wait this thing out and watch the results. I hope it gets better.

You don't think like you say you think. You are virtue signalling to puff up your ego, but you are hypocritical. If you really believed what you are saying, you'd live in a padded room somewhere on a small organic farm that doesn't use any fossil fuels. Be sure not to use solar panels, since several toxic chemicals are used in their production. Of course you'd have to grow your own seeds and not use anything that has been transported, except by sailboat perhaps - but then again, chemicals are used in making sailboats.

And you aren't even going to read the article that I linked so you can actually educate yourself on how the government approaches policy creation in regard to lives lost? You would think that this information would be incredibly relevant to you right now. Try stepping outside of your echo chamber.

Some of Society does not think like I do. That is fine.

I hate to break it to you, but GOVERNMENT does not think like you do. Read the article that I linked.

 

[machski]

I have hardly proved your point. No the difference is that I would not blame myself for that accident. My rage would be pointed at the idiot. It would not even occur to me that is was my fault.

Also there will never be a point were human life is less valuable than money. I think this is where we differ in theology. Let me clue you in. People are resilient. The world made it through the depression which lasted for the better part of 10 years. Don't try and tell me that we have to open back up so people can go skiing and go to restaurants and get back all our 1st world luxuries at that cost of lives. That is going to kill more people. No it is you that has the tone of arrogance safe and sound up there in sparely populated norther kingdom.

There is no sense in arguing any more. This is just like the politics of today. There will always and only be two side.

Just curious, since you are an avid skier Hawk, have you ever driven for skiing through a storm and after said to yourself "Man, making that drive was dumb"?

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[VTKilarney]

Let me clue you in. People are resilient. The world made it through the depression which lasted for the better part of 10 years.

Is this where I am supposed to tell you that, during the Great Depression, the economy was not locked down and that you are engaging in the false analogy logical fallacy?

 

[BenedictGomez]

At a certain point, the cost of locking down the economy is going to be greater than the cost in lives. That's the simple reality.

I listened to the entire Federal Reserve chairman's speech this morning, frightening stuff, which is why markets are down (they were up before comments). Outside the truly affected areas, we're already there on a go-forward basis.

there will never be a point were human life is less valuable than money.

Sorry to interrupt your little self-righteous bumper sticker with some reality, but there is no life without money. We're approaching the point where millions of Americans in relatively unaffected areas are "without money" for no scientifically solid reason. Easy for you to say otherwise, I bet you have a work from home job and/or are economically fairly solid, while millions of unemployed cant pay their bills & are genuinely in fear.

 

[x10003q]

So you have never driven an automobile with a passenger?

As much as it may make you uncomfortable, society makes these sorts of determinations ALL OF THE TIME.

For example, the age group most likely to die in a car accident are 80-90 year olds. Lots of them die every year. And yet we build highways and allow people to drive.

Fortunately, we do not base these decisions on emotionally driven anecdotes. We weight the costs and benefits. At a certain point, the cost of locking down the economy is going to be greater than the cost in lives. That's the simple reality.

Spare us the car comparison.
About 38,800 people in the USA died in car accidents in all of 2019. The number was 39,404 in 2018.
We are now over 83,000 confirmed deaths from Covid-19 in about 2 months.