So Who is Behind Powder Mountain?

[Tin Woodsman]

The articles I have read (SL Trib and Fox 13) interviewed some local passholders. There was some disappointment, but not much. As said, two of the three areas are no big deal and have bad exposure. One skier said they liked one of the areas because nobody skied there.

If I were a regular, the lift in Rain Tree/Cobabe Canyon would give me more heartburn. That seems weird to have a lift in an open public area that is restricted to homeowners. I think the intent is to get those homeowners back to their property, but the lift allows them to lap that terrain while others cannot as easily.

I think that Hastings is WAY less douchey than the previous regime.

This nails it. If the key attraction of large trail pods is that they are empty days after a storm, that's not a sustainable business model and is also an indication of the relative attractiveness of that terrain vs. what exists elsewhere on the mountain (which presumably gets skied out sooner).

Agree it seems weird to have a restricted access lift but its addition doesn't actually change the current public experience in Cobabe Canyon. You still need to take 2-3 lifts depending on what you want to ski. If that's the trade-off required for lift-served access to Lighting Ridge and 50% reduction in ride time on the most important lift on the mountain, sign me up.

 

[raisingarizona]

Am I the only one who thinks this sounds super-douchey? I'm not sure how this is going to go over with the general public up there whom they'll need to support the mountain. I think going fully private is probably better than having a home-owner exclusive pod or two, but I guess time will tell.

It’s a test run to get the public “lubricated” and ready. I bet it goes fully private in ten years.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Yeah I guess I don't have really strong opinions on how other people spend their money. No one buys a business for charity, no matter how wealthy they are.

While I agree with the first sentence above, the second sentence above is obviously false, which is how I'm perceiving this because there is simply no way Reid freaking Hastings bought Powder Mountain to turn it into a net profit generating machine in the first place.

Taking him at face value, he wants to enjoy it, which makes sense, and he's in his mid 60s now, so how many years of skiing does he realistically have left? He has "more money than time", to quote a very famous investor. How much will that length of a lift cost, like $7M? That really is like you or I whipping out $1,650 to buy a TV at Costco in terms of the trivialness to him, so the entire torturous round-a-bout business model seems odd to me.

Not to mention, if that private terrain is as lame as everyone here who's commented so far agrees it does, is it really going to be a huge draw to high-net-worth homebuyers anyway? This entire aspect of the plan is rather odd when you really digest it.

 

[BenedictGomez]

It’s a test run to get the public “lubricated” and ready. I bet it goes fully private in ten years.

Now this explanation at least makes some legitimate horse sense, albeit in dishonest Machiavellian fashion.

 

[raisingarizona]

Now this explanation at least makes some legitimate horse sense, albeit in dishonest Machiavellian fashion.

Well it wouldn't be smart to cut out the general public until you know the new model makes sense. That's not a dishonest machiavellian fashion, that's just business.

 

[4aprice]

Well it wouldn't be smart to cut out the general public until you know the new model makes sense. That's not a dishonest machiavellian fashion, that's just business.

Maybe its just me but what do they see as the advantages of going private? Is there a decent size market for this I'm not aware of? There already is a private area just down the street.

 

[1dog]

While I agree with the first sentence above, the second sentence above is obviously false, which is how I'm perceiving this because there is simply no way Reid freaking Hastings bought Powder Mountain to turn it into a net profit generating machine in the first place.

Taking him at face value, he wants to enjoy it, which makes sense, and he's in his mid 60s now, so how many years of skiing does he realistically have left? He has "more money than time", to quote a very famous investor. How much will that length of a lift cost, like $7M? That really is like you or I whipping out $1,650 to buy a TV at Costco in terms of the trivialness to him, so the entire torturous round-a-bout business model seems odd to me.

Not to mention, if that private terrain is as lame as everyone here who's commented so far agrees it does, is it really going to be a huge draw to high-net-worth homebuyers anyway? This entire aspect of the plan is rather odd when you really digest it.

Skiing there since early 2000's. Never skied Yellowstone Club - any similarities? This has gotta be much more expansive- looking at YC from Big Sky - it seems minuscule. Skied that Cobabe Canyon areas after lifts were shut down for a week the day they opened last March - virgin everywhere- boring- with f'ugly housing that even my architect friend thought 'drab and dreary'. My friend who lives on the mt isn't happy- but like Hastings - how much time has he got left to make turns?

Few steeps- and Lightning RIdge was always good at $7 a pop back when you got towed on a rope - now, steeps still have quite a run out. . . . . he can always sell it if it doesn't work. A new breed of skier might be bored but families gotta love the place. . .except not a lot in Eden to do, unlike PC.

At least infrastructure doesn't depend on immediate profitability, it if ever was? Bar scene at base lodge is classic tho.

 

[thetrailboss]

Urgent Action Required for Powder Mountain's Compliance with Zoning and Public Access

The privatization sets a precedent for the resort to pursue further privatizations in the future if gone unchecked!

sign.moveon.org

 

[thetrailboss]

Powder Mountain on Instagram: "You have questions? We have answers. ⁠ ⁠ Submit your questions via the 🔗Link In our Bio🔗⁠ ⁠ #powdermountain #utah #skiutah #visitogden"

1,573 likes, 141 comments - powdermountain on January 16, 2024: "You have questions? We have answers. ⁠ ⁠ Submit your questions via the 🔗Link In our Bio🔗⁠ ⁠ #powdermountain #utah #skiutah #visitogden".

www.instagram.com

 

[thetrailboss]

Inside the ritzy Utah ski resort Meghan Markle hit for ‘perfect’ trip with friends

The Duchess of Sussex was photographed hitting the snowy slopes with Pilates guru Heather Dorak and co-founder of Alliance of Moms Kelly McKee Zajfen.

pagesix.com

 

[thetrailboss]

And for those that didn’t see it, Powder has done the following:

Dropped the Indy Pass

Dropped caps on season pass sales

Increased pass prices and gave passholders one week to renew or else feel the wrath of dynamic pricing

Dropped discounted season passes for first responders, military, local kids, and seniors

And to add insult to injury, state that they are limiting free parking and going to start charging for parking.


Needless to say, the natives are restless….

Powder Mountain dropped the cap on its season passes. People aren’t happy.

Powder Mountain will no longer limit the number of season passes it sells, the resort announced this week. Some people had been on the waitlist since 2020. Rather than excitement, though, the resort has faced harsh backlash.

www.sltrib.com

Powder Mountain Raises Prices On All Season Passes (Up To 860% Increase)

Had to do a double take on the title of this Salt Lake Tribune article to make sure I was reading it correctly but yeah, Powder Mountain is increasing the

unofficialnetworks.com

 

[4aprice]

How many people do they think have that kind of money? I mean I have no problems with the wealthy having their play grounds, But you have Wasatch Peaks down the street, is there that many patrons willing to pay that much, that these places will survive? I know golf has its clubs I just don't see the same thing in skiing.

For the locals I would be hoping Nordic Valley is able to recover and develop their area to fill the void. Never been to Beaver so don't know the travel time from that area.

 

[thetrailboss]

How many people do they think have that kind of money? I mean I have no problems with the wealthy having their play grounds, But you have Wasatch Peaks down the street, is there that many patrons willing to pay that much, that these places will survive? I know golf has its clubs I just don't see the same thing in skiing.

For the locals I would be hoping Nordic Valley is able to recover and develop their area to fill the void. Never been to Beaver so don't know the travel time from that area.

So, I honestly think that this was a management screwup at PowMow. I would be surprised if Reed Hastings actually told them they needed to do this. If anything, he probably put pressure on them to be more fiscally responsible, and this is how they interpreted it. That said, they’ve certainly gotten a lot of bad press over the last week and a lot of lost business. I cannot think of that is very sustainable for a business.

Your point about Wasatch Peaks is spot on. Although Wasatch Peaks has had some recent litigation with locals that was well publicized and potentially an existential threat to the resort, us locals recently woke up to the stunning news that the litigation had been settled. That resort is pretty much brand new from the ground up. Beautiful lifts, good vertical, good, snow, and good management. Powder Mountain, on the other hand, is right now trying to rebuild from the shit show that was the last 12 years or so. It is not the same caliber property and has quite dated facilities. Now it has the baggage of bad PR and angry locals who can control their destiny with regards to water, permitting, etc.

And it is funny that you mention Nordic Valley. I was just about to post about them. Right now that place is a complete shit show. They’ve restricted hours midweek, cut back on grooming, laid off staff, and are all but in a tailspin right now. I did see something recently from Mountain Capital Partners reassuring the public that despite isolated issues overall the company was doing well overall. But it appears to me that Nordic Valley is in a very bad situation right now. It really sucks, but some of the decisions they made over the last four years have been pretty stupid. Namely, not replacing the main chairlift at the mountain (that remains down) while expanding a separate isolated area with a brand new six person chairlift that now people have to hike or ride a snowmobile to access. The loss of their lodge only adds insult to injury. I can’t take that place seriously at all.

 

[4aprice]

And it is funny that you mention Nordic Valley. I was just about to post about them. Right now that place is a complete shit show. They’ve restricted hours midweek, cut back on grooming, laid off staff, and are all but in a tailspin right now. I did see something recently from Mountain Capital Partners reassuring the public that despite isolated issues overall the company was doing well overall. But it appears to me that Nordic Valley is in a very bad situation right now. It really sucks, but some of the decisions they made over the last four years have been pretty stupid. Namely, not replacing the main chairlift at the mountain (that remains down) while expanding a separate isolated area with a brand new six person chairlift that now people have to hike or ride a snowmobile to access. The loss of their lodge only adds insult to injury. I can’t take that place seriously at all.

Mountain Capital Partners is the one reason that I would have hope for NV. They seem to do a good job with AZ Snowbowl (RA can chime in on that one) Brian Head and Purgatory in Colorado. Certainly as far as local management they've been dealt a bad hand with the lift going down then the fire. Has to have knocked them on their heels a bit. But hopefully they can get the ship righted and on course again. I know if I lived in the Ogden area that's what I would be hoping for. I still say Utah could use at least one more "public" ski area.

 

[thetrailboss]

Mountain Capital Partners is the one reason that I would have hope for NV. They seem to do a good job with AZ Snowbowl (RA can chime in on that one) Brian Head and Purgatory in Colorado. Certainly as far as local management they've been dealt a bad hand with the lift going down then the fire. Has to have knocked them on their heels a bit. But hopefully they can get the ship righted and on course again. I know if I lived in the Ogden area that's what I would be hoping for. I still say Utah could use at least one more "public" ski area.

Methinks that MCP is the operator of Nordic Valley and that the property is still owned by the "Skyline Base" who wants to develop the real estate. If that's true, then I can see MCP demanding that SB invest in these needed upgrades while SB is balking to pay for it.

 

[thetrailboss]

MSN

 

[4aprice]

At what point (and this is for all passes) does it become "the point of diminishing returns" ? Personal choice I know but I'm close to 2K for my skiing. Still paying more for my boat slip but at some point may have to adjust one or the other.

 

[BenedictGomez]

I still say Utah could use at least one more "public" ski area.

I was surprised to recently learn that there was once plans for a public ski area above Provo.

 

[4aprice]

I was surprised to recently learn that there was once plans for a public ski area above Provo.

When we drive between Salt Lake (Cottonwood Heights) and Colorado which we do annually we tend to drive down 15 and cross the Wasatch at Spanish Fork. There are a lot of Peaks down in that region that appear to have good elevation and could be targets for development. There's also a good chunk of population down there too and it's a long distance between Sundance and Eagle Point down in Beaver. That's one of the reasons I think Utah could use another public resort. Seems to be a lot of untapped potential there. I would think those mountains would be more suitable then the Oquirrh's (sp?) on the west side of the valley. I'm sure the red tape would be miles thick (it would be in Colorado).

 

[BenedictGomez]

When we drive between Salt Lake (Cottonwood Heights) and Colorado which we do annually we tend to drive down 15 and cross the Wasatch at Spanish Fork. There are a lot of Peaks down in that region that appear to have good elevation and could be targets for development...... That's one of the reasons I think Utah could use another public resort. Seems to be a lot of untapped potential there...... I'm sure the red tape would be miles thick.

There definitely seems no lack of places like you suggest. In addition to all the financial hurdles & red tape, I imagine you'd probably need to time your request for when there's a Republican in office because you'd need National Forest Service approval, and I just cant imagine a Democrat granting an okay for a ski area.