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Something is Brewing at Sundown at it's not Beer!
- Thread starter WoodCore
- Start date
reefer
Well-known member
Looks like K's stairway to heaven to me. Glad to see all the CLITS alive and well!
Great to see that new trail. Should be fun. Unfortunately I may never ski it being same distance as heading to VT. I did head down there once a few years back (when I had a couple comp tickets) on a beautiful spring day when the bumps on Gunny kicked my ass.
Or World Cup events...
skiNEwhere
Active member
With all this SS talk I'm surprised they are not featured for the AZ challenge.
^ The fastest way to solve this is a snowstorm
are you kidding? this is great. haha.
passed all 9 for the skiing portion. i take the online part this fall, and then the teaching part sometime in the winter...
i'll let you know where it's being held and when i'm going. :beer:
MadMadWorld
Active member
when does the "tell jarrod how to build a jump" thread start?
looking forward to it sir.
VTKilarney
Well-known member
I've been very impressed with how Sundown has been run. IMHO, they are an example of how a small ski area should be run. Other ski areas in Connecticut could learn a lot from Sundown.
As much as I admire Sundown, I can't understand why people feel entitled to silence its critics. The last time I checked, an internet forum is a place to discuss different ideas and opinions. As long as an opinion has at least the slightest basis in fact, it is fair game. This forum would quickly descend into a sinkhole if fans of every mountain were on a mission to silence any criticism whatsoever of that mountain. I doubt that anyone here is so fragile that they cannot read through posts that they do not agree with. So why act like you are? If you disagree you are free to join the debate - but accept the fact that debate is what happens in a forum like this.
As far as the difficulty rating is concerned, one thing has not been brought up is this: A trail rating system that varies from mountain to mountain is NOT CONSUMER FRIENDLY. With only a couple of exceptions, the members of this forum are consumers. As a consumer, it is to my benefit to know what a black diamond means no matter where I am thinking about skiing. A uniform rating system allows me to compare mountain to mountain and make an informed choice as to where I am going to spend my money.
I have always felt that there should be an independent body that establishes the difficulty ratings of trails using objective standards. IMHO, it's more important for a skier to know how hard a trail is to ski than whether or not it is harder or easier than another trail on the mountain. In any event, if a uniform rating system was employed, you would STILL BE ABLE TO COMPARE TRAILS ON THE SAME MOUNTAIN. For that reason, I can't see why there is any advantage whatsoever to a non-uniform system.
To reduce the range within a difficulty rating, I would have no problem if we embraced the European system. The European system uses four primary designations rather than our three.
As much as I admire Sundown, I can't understand why people feel entitled to silence its critics. The last time I checked, an internet forum is a place to discuss different ideas and opinions. As long as an opinion has at least the slightest basis in fact, it is fair game. This forum would quickly descend into a sinkhole if fans of every mountain were on a mission to silence any criticism whatsoever of that mountain. I doubt that anyone here is so fragile that they cannot read through posts that they do not agree with. So why act like you are? If you disagree you are free to join the debate - but accept the fact that debate is what happens in a forum like this.
As far as the difficulty rating is concerned, one thing has not been brought up is this: A trail rating system that varies from mountain to mountain is NOT CONSUMER FRIENDLY. With only a couple of exceptions, the members of this forum are consumers. As a consumer, it is to my benefit to know what a black diamond means no matter where I am thinking about skiing. A uniform rating system allows me to compare mountain to mountain and make an informed choice as to where I am going to spend my money.
I have always felt that there should be an independent body that establishes the difficulty ratings of trails using objective standards. IMHO, it's more important for a skier to know how hard a trail is to ski than whether or not it is harder or easier than another trail on the mountain. In any event, if a uniform rating system was employed, you would STILL BE ABLE TO COMPARE TRAILS ON THE SAME MOUNTAIN. For that reason, I can't see why there is any advantage whatsoever to a non-uniform system.
To reduce the range within a difficulty rating, I would have no problem if we embraced the European system. The European system uses four primary designations rather than our three.
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skiNEwhere
Active member
Good points Vt.
Sundown does a good job of having a little something for everyone, regardless of what kind of skier/rider you are, which is impressive considering how small they are.
It seems like there are a few areas here that are above reproach. Sundown, MRG, and magic fit this category. But on the flip side, if k-mart isn't the first to open, hell has frozen over
Sundown does a good job of having a little something for everyone, regardless of what kind of skier/rider you are, which is impressive considering how small they are.
It seems like there are a few areas here that are above reproach. Sundown, MRG, and magic fit this category. But on the flip side, if k-mart isn't the first to open, hell has frozen over
MadMadWorld
Active member
Well said.....great write up!
Except that trail ratings are not primarily a marketing device (as Sundown's critics in this thread will be sure to remind you). Given the extreme differences in terrain between central Connecticut, Northern Vermont and out West, any workable standardized rating system would have to include a lot more than three or four designations (Oh noes! Triple Diamonds!!). If not, a place like Sundown would presumably be obliged to label all its trails green or blue and I cannot imagine a less skier-friendly result than that. The fact is that most skiers posting on this board have (as others have mentioned) stopped caring about trail designations in grade school. This is because the primary purposes of a trail rating system is to warn beginner and intermediate skiers not to get in over their heads. And the mountain-relative rating system, whatever its flaws, is far better suited to that than some industry-wide standard that requires Sundown to rate Gunbarrel relative to MRG's Paradise rather than it's own Tom's Treat.
I agree with VTKilarney mostly.
What if we tried to make trail ratings more defined. Must meet all qualifications or moves up to the next difficulty.
Example (slope % is pulled out of thin air)
Green: Slope between 5 - 10%. At least 30' wide. Regularly groomed.
Blue: Slope between 5 - 15%. May have natural (ungroomed) terrain or moguls. At least 10' wide.
Diamond: Slope between 15 - 25%.
Double diamond: Slopes in excess of 25%.
What if we tried to make trail ratings more defined. Must meet all qualifications or moves up to the next difficulty.
Example (slope % is pulled out of thin air)
Green: Slope between 5 - 10%. At least 30' wide. Regularly groomed.
Blue: Slope between 5 - 15%. May have natural (ungroomed) terrain or moguls. At least 10' wide.
Diamond: Slope between 15 - 25%.
Double diamond: Slopes in excess of 25%.
MadMadWorld
Active member
How do you factor in naturals features like ledges and such?
skiNEwhere
Active member
I think it depends on whether or not it can be marked properly and if it's mandatory or not. For example, the cliff at the very bottom of MRG under the single chair is almost unavoidable, the only way around it is rocky. So DD easily
skiNEwhere
Active member
I think you mean degrees. 25% is only 14 degrees
Tin
Active member
This must be the formula Stratton and Bretton Woods uses then.
MadMadWorld
Active member
I will stay away from the marketing aspect of this (what is my bounty set at?). Is this trail more steeper then other stuff on the mountain? A simple ungroomed sign at the top works for most mountains.
Also, maybe most of us don't care but a lot of us have children that do. Trying to keep them safe is hard and I think some type of baseline would be helpful.
I know their are flaws in all of these methods it's my .02
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