Spillway Reopens on Sugarloaf and Replacement Plans

[JPTracker]

Curious about why they went to fixed-grip with conveyor vs. detachable. Is the fixed grip faster / slower than detachable and other benefits.

Fixed grip can run when you have icing. Detachables can not because the grips can slid.

 

[Nick]

Ah, thanks JP, didn't know that.

 

[ceo]

Detachable lifts aren't any more prone to being blown off the cable than are fixed grips, The nut on a fixed grip actually compresses a spring that provides the grip force, and the spring force on a detachable is the same. I think Sugarloaf's reasons for going with a fixie with a conveyor had more to do with capital and maintenance costs.

EDIT: Forgot about the icing issue. Thanks, JPTracker.

 

[Nick]

Couple reasons. First, the resorts have to be concerned about the chairs coming off the line in the terminals so the wind might impact that (as well as icing). Second, and related, the grips on an HSQ release and aren't fixed to the line. Technology is such that now the grips require a lot of force to come off the line, but older models (think Yan) were based on gravity to help hold them shut. Still, I think there is some risk that chairs could come off in high winds. Again, that would be pretty extreme, but it has happened.

How do they actually grip? Is it basically when it is hanging on the line it pinches on, and when it enters the station it lifts it up which releases the pinch on the line? I've always wondered exactly how they work.

 

[Skimaine]

. . I think Sugarloaf's reasons for going with a fixie with a conveyor had more to do with capital and maintenance costs.

EDIT: Forgot about the icing issue. Thanks, JPTracker.

Right. I think cost was probably the biggest factor. I would toss a few other contributing items in. They want this lift to be bomb proof (i.e., wind proof) therefore the chairs are heavier and haul rope is heavier and the fixed grip has more chairs closer together (again more weight). I also think the fixed grip provides all the skiers that the trails served by this lift can handle.

 

[thetrailboss]

How do they actually grip? Is it basically when it is hanging on the line it pinches on, and when it enters the station it lifts it up which releases the pinch on the line? I've always wondered exactly how they work.

Here you go.

 

[ceo]

If you look at the grip, there's the rollers that it runs on in the station, and a spring-loaded lever of some kind, usually at the end away from the cable. When the chair comes into the station, a slanted rail pushes down on the lever and that opens the grip, and the cable is guided downwards away from it. Some grips (Doppelmayr) have a stable open position and stay open going around the track, others (Poma) have a single position and close again. After loading, the chair is sped up by faster-moving rollers until it reaches line speed, then another slanted rail opens the grip and closes it on the cable (or just closes it, on two-position grips), and off it goes.

The old Sugarloaf and Loon gondolas did work by gravity, but not the way I always assumed. There's a sliding gate with a diagonal slot, and the weight of the carrier on a pin in the slot pulls it sideways and that pulls on the grip jaw. There's an additional small set of rollers that lifts up the carrier when it comes into the station to release the grip. On exit, the carrier just plonks onto the cable and gravity does the rest. The Yan grips were spring-loaded but had a gravity component as well, basically just a V-shaped slot that rested on the cable.

 

[SIKSKIER]

New Spillway lift towers are set.

Apologize if this is posted in another thread.Flying the towers in at the Loaf.

http://sugarloaf2020.tumblr.com/

 

[Telemechanic]

Detachable lifts aren't any more prone to being blown off the cable than are fixed grips, The nut on a fixed grip actually compresses a spring that provides the grip force, and the spring force on a detachable is the same. I think Sugarloaf's reasons for going with a fixie with a conveyor had more to do with capital and maintenance costs.

EDIT: Forgot about the icing issue. Thanks, JPTracker.

Ceo got it right, spring force is spring force and Sugarloaf will save money in the long run with a fixed grip and still get high uphill capacity and a reasonable ride time.

Line speed is the big problem with running detachables in high wind. Often slowing the lift helps.

Ice on the line: I've seen a haul rope covered with an inch and a half of ice and the problem wasn't the grip sliding on the rope, the problem is cleaning the ice from the grips. The ice is easily cleaned from the rope by the bullwheel and to a lesser extent towers with depression or compression assemblies. The grips must be clean just so they will pass through all the safety grip gauges in the terminal. These devices gauge the profile of the attached grip, open grip and location of the operating roller making sure the grips are in good condition and attach to the rope properly. The added thickness of the ice causes nuisance faults of these gauges. The ice generally doesn't effect the opening and closing of the grip, the spring force is too great. Sometimes ice causes low grip force readings that improve after a revolution. These are all problems from ice built up on a stationary lift, not during operation.

Wind sometimes causes the chairs to swing while in the terminal but the risk of the grip derailing is almost nil, I've never heard of it happening. I've seen chairs swing back way beyond 45 degrees and i still think it was less stressful than four defensive linemen beginner snowboarders attempting to stand up from the chair.

 

[thetrailboss]

Whoa! That was fast! They are splicing the cable already.

 

[thetrailboss]

Some more pictures:

 

[wa-loaf]

I'd like to see pics of how the layout at the summit station has changed. Last I heard there was going to be a lot of regrading done to the area.

 

[Newpylong]

Are the double runners Borvig as well? If they are replacing Spillway now do you think they will replace those with another fixed grip quad possibly?

 

[thetrailboss]

Are the double runners Borvig as well? If they are replacing Spillway now do you think they will replace those with another fixed grip quad possibly?

IIRC yes they were.

 

[thetrailboss]

I'd like to see pics of how the layout at the summit station has changed. Last I heard there was going to be a lot of regrading done to the area.

I would as well. There are no good pics that I can find.

 

[speden]

Sugarloafers might be interested in the Sugarloaf 2011 annual meeting video:

http://www.wskitv.com/2011/10/10/sugarloaf-annual-meeting-2011-2012-season/

They talk a little bit about future lift plans. After Skyline, it sounds like next in line is a wind resistant summit T-bar, and then a detached quad King Pine replacement (starting 1000 feet lower than the current one to better serve Brackett), with the current King Pine lift moved over to replace double runner with new wind fencing (probably two years out). No talk of replacing Timberline other than adding more wind fencing to it.

They seem to be turning some good revenue up there, so hopefully the improvements will keep coming.

 

[wa-loaf]

After Skyline, it sounds like next in line is a wind resistant summit T-bar, and then a detached quad King Pine replacement (starting 1000 feet lower than the current one to better serve Brackett),

So I don't have to watch the vid, did they say where the T-bar would go?

 

[speden]

They talk about future lifts at about 26:45 in the video.

The picture is kind of blurry, but the summit T-bar they are thinking of looks to be in the area of Tote Road Ext./Narrow Guage Ext. He said there used to be a T-bar there back in the Gondola days, called something like the Stably T-bar. So I guess it would be pretty close to the unloading area for Skyline.

 

[wa-loaf]

They talk about future lifts at about 26:45 in the video.

The picture is kind of blurry, but the summit T-bar they are thinking of looks to be in the area of Tote Road Ext./Narrow Guage Ext. He said there used to be a T-bar there back in the Gondola days, called something like the Stably T-bar. So I guess it would be pretty close to the unloading area for Skyline.

I don't remember exactly where the old one started, but it ended right where Timberline does now.

 

[EPB]

I don't remember exactly where the old one started, but it ended right where Timberline does now.

This link from teachski.com might help: http://teachski.com/brochures/sugarloaf/sugarloaf72.htm