Spillway Reopens on Sugarloaf and Replacement Plans

[wa-loaf]

This link from teachski.com might help: http://teachski.com/brochures/sugarloaf/sugarloaf72.htm

Yeah, that's pretty much the line Timberline takes now (just starts lower). It's gonna have to take a new route.

 

[jerryg]

When you reach the top of Timberline, the old t-bar line is to the right and therefore the terminus was further away, and downhill from where the quad ends. This meant that it was fine for Upper Binder, but you had to hike up a little to get to Tote Road, Narrow Gauge, and especially the snowfields.

 

[EPB]

When you reach the top of Timberline, the old t-bar line is to the right and therefore the terminus was further away, and downhill from where the quad ends. This meant that it was fine for Upper Binder, but you had to hike up a little to get to Tote Road, Narrow Gauge, and especially the snowfields.

That was my understanding. From what I recall, the old t-bar line starts on the Spillway side of the current Timberline lift. It crosses the lift about halfway up the t-bar line and terminates to the skiers left of Timberline's top bull wheel. It would be an interesting idea.

As a side note, I really hope that the new "double runner" replacement would extend to the top of the existing t-bar. It would be a shame if it stopped at the new quad and did not offer access to the upper mountain on days that the Skyline chair cannot run.

 

[wa-loaf]

As a side note, I really hope that the new "double runner" replacement would extend to the top of the existing t-bar. It would be a shame if it stopped at the new quad and did not offer access to the upper mountain on days that the Skyline chair cannot run.

No, that would be bad. The reason the t-bar is still there is that's the only way you can get up that high when the wind blows. If the new double runner went up that high the whole thing would get shut down in the wind, cutting off access to the lower trails with it. Keep double runner with the high side to get to the t-bar base.

 

[bvibert]

Sugarloafers might be interested in the Sugarloaf 2011 annual meeting video:

http://www.wskitv.com/2011/10/10/sugarloaf-annual-meeting-2011-2012-season/

They talk a little bit about future lift plans. After Skyline, it sounds like next in line is a wind resistant summit T-bar, and then a detached quad King Pine replacement (starting 1000 feet lower than the current one to better serve Brackett), with the current King Pine lift moved over to replace double runner with new wind fencing (probably two years out). No talk of replacing Timberline other than adding more wind fencing to it.

They seem to be turning some good revenue up there, so hopefully the improvements will keep coming.

That's too bad about King Pine becoming a detach, though starting lower down will be good for Brackett basin skiing.

 

[EPB]

No, that would be bad. The reason the t-bar is still there is that's the only way you can get up that high when the wind blows. If the new double runner went up that high the whole thing would get shut down in the wind, cutting off access to the lower trails with it. Keep double runner with the high side to get to the t-bar base.

Definitely. Just to clarify, I meant to say "to the bottom of the existing t-bar", but it looks like you knew what I meant.

The video got me a little nervous because there was talk about the double runner replacement being shorter than the current King Pine chair. According to Skilifts.org, the double runner west (the long side) is 4403 feet long and covers 1014 vertical feet. Meanwhile, the King Pine chair is 3174 feet long, covering 1074 vertical feet. Perhaps I misunderstood what the presenter was saying, but my take was that the replacement would only cover the 3080 feet on 617 vertical covered by the short side. They would add 100ish pounds of weight to the bottom of the old King Pine quad chairs because the lift would have excess torque, and this would help the chair run in higher wind.

Maybe this is contingent on how well the Skyline chair holds up in the wind, but it would be a shame to lose access to the #3T in my opinion.

 

[EPB]

That's too bad about King Pine becoming a detach, though starting lower down will be good for Brackett basin skiing.

Maybe it's because I'm not that opposed to high speed lifts, but I thought that this is a pretty good idea. If they get an extra 1500 feet out of a high speed quad, it should really help with Brackett access, and the lift would be awfully long as a fixed grip. Granted, it would increase skier demand in that area (and lift lines) but uphill capacity wouldn't change much.

It might be a little more difficult to run in questionable wind, too. All in all, though, I really don't see why it would be a disappointment. It would probably be a pretty exciting change to the casual Sugarloaf-goer.

 

[speden]

No, that would be bad. The reason the t-bar is still there is that's the only way you can get up that high when the wind blows. If the new double runner went up that high the whole thing would get shut down in the wind, cutting off access to the lower trails with it. Keep double runner with the high side to get to the t-bar base.

I think they said last year that if Skyline is as wind resistant as they expect, the T-bar next to it would be removed since it would be redundant. If the wind is blowing hard enough to shut down Skyline, then they wouldn't want people up there anyway. I wonder if they will even run the T-bar very much this season.

 

[speden]

That's too bad about King Pine becoming a detach, though starting lower down will be good for Brackett basin skiing.

What's wrong with a detach there? If they lengthen it, the ride time would be pretty long for a fixed grip. I'm sure with their laser focus on preventing future wind problems, they would design it so that it was very wind resistant, with lots of low towers and wind fencing.

 

[bvibert]

No, that would be bad. The reason the t-bar is still there is that's the only way you can get up that high when the wind blows. If the new double runner went up that high the whole thing would get shut down in the wind, cutting off access to the lower trails with it. Keep double runner with the high side to get to the t-bar base.

Agreed. That doesn't sound like a well thought out plan...

 

[wa-loaf]

Definitely. Just to clarify, I meant to say "to the bottom of the existing t-bar", but it looks like you knew what I meant.

The video got me a little nervous because there was talk about the double runner replacement being shorter than the current King Pine chair. According to Skilifts.org, the double runner west (the long side) is 4403 feet long and covers 1014 vertical feet. Meanwhile, the King Pine chair is 3174 feet long, covering 1074 vertical feet. Perhaps I misunderstood what the presenter was saying, but my take was that the replacement would only cover the 3080 feet on 617 vertical covered by the short side. They would add 100ish pounds of weight to the bottom of the old King Pine quad chairs because the lift would have excess torque, and this would help the chair run in higher wind.

Maybe this is contingent on how well the Skyline chair holds up in the wind, but it would be a shame to lose access to the #3T in my opinion.

Hmm, yeah I though you meant you wanted it to go to the top of the t-bar ... so we were on the same page regardless. The last AZ summit was really windy and the Superquad was able to provide access to the t-bar, but the lines there were so long we often took double runner up there.

I think they said last year that if Skyline is as wind resistant as they expect, the T-bar next to it would be removed since it would be redundant. If the wind is blowing hard enough to shut down Skyline, then they wouldn't want people up there anyway. I wonder if they will even run the T-bar very much this season.

I would be sorry to loose that, but if Skyline is as good in the wind as they say and the t-bar gets moved up higher, that would be pretty decent plan. And if the t-bar gets moved, that eliminates the need for the longer double runner.

 

[bvibert]

Maybe it's because I'm not that opposed to high speed lifts, but I thought that this is a pretty good idea. If they get an extra 1500 feet out of a high speed quad, it should really help with Brackett access, and the lift would be awfully long as a fixed grip. Granted, it would increase skier demand in that area (and lift lines) but uphill capacity wouldn't change much.

It might be a little more difficult to run in questionable wind, too. All in all, though, I really don't see why it would be a disappointment. It would probably be a pretty exciting change to the casual Sugarloaf-goer.

What's wrong with a detach there? If they lengthen it, the ride time would be pretty long for a fixed grip. I'm sure with their laser focus on preventing future wind problems, they would design it so that it was very wind resistant, with lots of low towers and wind fencing.

Just not a fan of high speeds. I like the vibe over there as it is too. With a longer length it does make sense though.

I'm sure most will welcome the change, and I'll be in the minority.

 

[EPB]

Just not a fan of high speeds. I like the vibe over there as it is too. With a longer length it does make sense though.

I'm sure most will welcome the change, and I'll be in the minority.

Understandable for sure. When it comes to expansion/upgrades, there's always such a fine line between wanting the best for the area to sustain its business and wanting the best for my personal experience. Always an interesting dichotomy.

As to wa-loaf's point, it would be great if Skyline is that good. We'll have to see how this season goes. It will be interesting to see how the new lift technology fares against a beast of a mountain. It certainly looks like Sugarloaf is doing everything they can to wind-proof this lift. My hat's off at this point.

 

[bvibert]

I think they said last year that if Skyline is as wind resistant as they expect, the T-bar next to it would be removed since it would be redundant. If the wind is blowing hard enough to shut down Skyline, then they wouldn't want people up there anyway. I wonder if they will even run the T-bar very much this season.

Hopefully Skyline is as wind proof as they're expecting. If it is then the plans make sense.

 

[bvibert]

Understandable for sure. When it comes to expansion/upgrades, there's always such a fine line between wanting the best for the area to sustain its business and wanting the best for my personal experience. Always an interesting dichotomy.

Yeah, it's something that I always struggle with. I'm sure the end result will be fine, and it's certainly not going to keep me from visiting. I just wish I lived closer.

 

[lmgrnjeep]

through the grape vine i have heard when they replace the king pine lift the lift will hug the skiers left trees just like they have done with Skyline..... They will windfence the top of widowmaker and haulback so it can be somewhat protected. Ask they said they will move the lift down about 1000 feet which means they would have to make cross haul very open/ non existent so there isnt conjestion coming from kingpine bowl, whiffletree quad and brackett.... They will need it to be high speed to get all the traffic that burnt mountain will bring to it. The loaf is in a great place right now with the new lift, new terrain, and great people we are in for one heck of a winter... and according to accuweather we are going to get pummled with snow

 

[ceo]

The old Timberline T-bar went up between Tote Road Extension and the current Timberline Quad liftline, starting roughly where the latter intersects Spillway Crosscut. You can see the liftline pretty clearly on Google Maps. It was diesel-powered; I was once on it when it ran out of fuel. In the video they described it as a Stadeli; I think the rest of Sugarloaf's T-bars were Constams. When I was a kid I loved to loop Binder Extension on it.

I wonder how long it's been since a major North American resort installed a new T-bar.

 

[Tooth]

through the grape vine i have heard when they replace the king pine lift the lift will hug the skiers left trees just like they have done with Skyline..... They will windfence the top of widowmaker and haulback so it can be somewhat protected. Ask they said they will move the lift down about 1000 feet which means they would have to make cross haul very open/ non existent so there isnt conjestion coming from kingpine bowl, whiffletree quad and brackett.... They will need it to be high speed to get all the traffic that burnt mountain will bring to it. The loaf is in a great place right now with the new lift, new terrain, and great people we are in for one heck of a winter... and according to accuweather we are going to get pummled with snow

Well said. It is a very exciting time to be a Sugarloafer. They seem to be at the cusp of something very special. Its very early in the whole 2020 vision yet the moves they are making are substantial. I have seen the AZ group at the loaf for years. Seems like a great bunch of people. Always have smiles on their faces.