Stenger and Quiros Ousted from Management of Jay Peak and Burke

[deadheadskier]

Same line at Pico? Did they build a ramp up the cliff near the top or terminate it lower? There's no doubt a lot of former surface lifts that went up very steep terrain. Giant Killer at Pico as well.

 

[freeski]

I guess the judge read my post. $4.9M approved for tram.

 

[freeski]

If you refurbish a tram don't they last for another 20 years or more. Spend the money fix the tram. Why don't they just pump water up and hold it in a tank?

The judge read my post. $4.9M approved for tram. Thank you judge.

 

[cdskier]

Similarly, a good larger portion of NY/NJ skiers don't know about Sugarbush either.

I respectfully disagree...I know many people in NJ/NY that know about Sugarbush. Hell it seems half the people I meet in the Mad River Valley are originally from the NJ/NY area!

 

[steamboat1]

Jay did not loose several million last year. They actually made a profit. Wherever you read that they misquoted the numbers.

If Jay was not profitable then the receiver would just shut them down and sell off the assets. They would not put putting more money back into it. After all they make their money when Jay is finally sold. The more it is sold for the more they get.

"Jay’s pretax profits were $2.6 million for FY 2014, $3 million for fiscal year 2015, and through February 2016 appeared to be on track for $1.8 million for FY 2016, Goldberg said."

 

[BenedictGomez]

Apparently you missed the part where I actually had a conversation with Jay and the response was

Here are my thoughts on that...


A. A chair would never run in the wind they get at that exposure . It used to run many years ago, so what changed? I'm talking about a quad terminating much lower, and then a very short fixed grip to the top. This used to exist at Jay Peak, so why cant a short double run to that exposure now?

B. A replacement Gondola was priced out at $10M. Not sure what model, but it was deemed even more cost prohibitive. This I agree with. Bad idea, and would be an absolutely silly waste of money.

C. Their marketing department thinks it has value. I'd say they probably know a little bit more about their clientele being up there 365 days a year and having hundreds of thousands of people come through their doors annually whom they get feedback from. I think they have a bit better idea about what's good for their resort than some guy in New Jersey. The value I place on marketing's opinion regarding cost/benefit analysis on a very significant capital expenditures is only slightly north of the value I'd place on Kim Kardashian's thoughts regarding the matter. This is akin to asking the accounting department its' thoughts on patent law or a technical engineering matter.

 

[deadheadskier]

Do we know the track record of that chair running in the wind back in the day was better than the Tram today? That's an awfully big assumption.

Do we know if the process of permitting and installing a new double along the old path + removal of Tram and then installation of a new HSQ would cost more than just fixing the Tram? Yes, significantly so. The new HSQ you propose alone would likely cost north of $5M; never mind all the other factors. That's probably close to $10M you're proposing.

I can't quantify if I value your opinion better than Kardashian's. I don't know her well enough.

 

[tree_skier]

Same line at Pico? Did they build a ramp up the cliff near the top or terminate it lower? There's no doubt a lot of former surface lifts that went up very steep terrain. Giant Killer at Pico as well.

yes ran the same line. you can still see some of the tower bases. It was one of those nice cable T's you litterally hung vertically off it and most of the time it was just an ice track.

 

[tree_skier]

forgot to mention that yes you had to swing around some of the obsticles

 

[BenedictGomez]

MRG is only well-known because of all the controversy due to its ban on snowboarding. There's nothing "iconic" about its single chair.

I'm not a big believer that many chairs/lifts are "iconic" to begin with, but if the MRG single chair isnt on that short list, I'm not sure what lift possibly could be.

Similarly, a good larger portion of NY/NJ skiers don't know about Sugarbush either. They may have heard of Stowe remotely

Really? My perception is that pretty much everyone under-the-sun knows that Stowe is a ski resort. I'd imagine, though I could be wrong, that most people have heard of Sugarbush too. At least in my nook of New Jersey that's for sure. And to suggest SKIERS dont know what Sugarbush or Stowe are? This I massively disagree with.

I guess the judge read my post. $4.9M approved for tram.

Pretty close to my $5M overrun guess. Now watch it go even higher than $4.9M.

"Jay’s pretax profits were $2.6 million for FY 2014, $3 million for fiscal year 2015, and through February 2016 appeared to be on track for $1.8 million for FY 2016, Goldberg said."

Better than a loss, but still absolutely lousy numbers.

 

[dlague]

Here are my thoughts on that...


A. A chair would never run in the wind they get at that exposure . It used to run many years ago, so what changed? I'm talking about a quad terminating much lower, and then a very short fixed grip to the top. This used to exist at Jay Peak, so why cant a short double run to that exposure now?

B. A replacement Gondola was priced out at $10M. Not sure what model, but it was deemed even more cost prohibitive. This I agree with. Bad idea, and would be an absolutely silly waste of money.

C. Their marketing department thinks it has value. I'd say they probably know a little bit more about their clientele being up there 365 days a year and having hundreds of thousands of people come through their doors annually whom they get feedback from. I think they have a bit better idea about what's good for their resort than some guy in New Jersey. The value I place on marketing's opinion regarding cost/benefit analysis on a very significant capital expenditures is only slightly north of the value I'd place on Kim Kardashian's thoughts regarding the matter. This is akin to asking the accounting department its' thoughts on patent law or a technical engineering matter.

I agree with your response to A! I even mentioned that idea before. Yes there used to be one long ago but I think a different placement (more centralized would be great) - the whole wedding argument well, I am not sure - keeping the tram does have merit. I would like to see both but that will never happen since it would allow people to lap that chair to ski Green Beret, Valhalla, and the chutes and they would be wrecked pretty fast.

 

[steamboat1]

"Jay’s pretax profits were $2.6 million for FY 2014, $3 million for fiscal year 2015, and through February 2016 appeared to be on track for $1.8 million for FY 2016, Goldberg said."

Better than a loss, but still absolutely lousy numbers.

Considering the amount of $$$$ invested at Jay they're horrible.

 

[mbedle]

Very interesting letter from the receiver to the investors up on the website. Couple of interesting things - they apparently determined that Jay Peak had paid an outside firm to build 24 of the cottages offsite for the Jay Peak Hotel Suites Stateside project. There appears to be a large amount of green card with their conditions removed. Possibility of selling of General Partner's share in the different projects. The letter to the USCIS explains some of the things they are asking them to do to persevere the statuses of the investors.

 

[Not Sure]

"Jay’s pretax profits were $2.6 million for FY 2014, $3 million for fiscal year 2015, and through February 2016 appeared to be on track for $1.8 million for FY 2016, Goldberg said."

Given the shenanigans with Eb-5 what are the chances they skimmed some off as well ? Who put the #'s together ?

 

[fbrissette]

Given the shenanigans with Eb-5 what are the chances they skimmed some off as well ? Who put the #'s together ?

They did. The receiver was confident profits would go up to 6 millions next year and 8 millions in two years.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Considering the amount of $$$$ invested at Jay they're horrible.

Beyond horrible, and very telling.

The receiver was confident profits would go up to 6 millions next year and 8 millions in two years.

Still poor results, and telling.

 

[crystalmountainskier]

Is it possible that the Jackson tram capacity is dictated by size and not weight?

It's 19,709 lbs. or 100+1, whichever comes first (almost always the latter.) That's why Jay is adding load sensors so operators aren't guessing.

 

[fbrissette]

Beyond horrible, and very telling.

Still poor results, and telling.

You cannot evaluate the profitability of the investments made at Jay peak in the same way you would for a typical investment. It was obvious from the beginning that they could not build the infrastructures, operate them AND refund the investors with interest. For Jay Peak, this fraud and receivership was the best possible outcome.

When they sell the resort two years from now (supposedly valued at anywhere between 40 and 90 millions), the buyer will get a profitable resort free from any creditors.

What happens to Burke if, even with the hotel, they cannot turn in a profit ?

 

[deadheadskier]

Still poor results, and telling.

Do tell. What do you think the top line revenue and profits should be at a resort like Jay?

 

[steamboat1]

Do tell. What do you think the top line revenue and profits should be at a resort like Jay?

More than 3%-4% per annum which it will be even with $6m-$8m profit. They invested $200m in the place.