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Stenger and Quiros Ousted from Management of Jay Peak and Burke
- Thread starter thetrailboss
- Start date
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
The financial incompetence is so mind-boggling it's difficult to even believe.
Dont ever let State of Vermont take over VT's healthcare system, or smallpox, polio, whooping cough, tuberculosis, and yellow fever will make a comeback.
They've already spent $100 million on a website that does not work....
steamboat1
New member
Not a problem, just raise taxes.
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
$100M? On a website? That sounds pretty difficult to believe.
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
In less than 20 years (probably more like 10 or 12) they're going to be Verjersey, they just dont know it yet. I've seen this movie before, and I know how it ends.
LONGBOARDR
Active member
Check it out. It was part of the move towards single payer. Specifically, it was their idea to set up their own exchange:
https://medium.com/message/vermont-your-bad-website-is-making-people-sick-bd92e521a41b#.gmu3disyw
http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/east/2015/03/12/360325.htm
And I stand corrected: $200 million. They wasted $333 per Vermonter on it. And it still does not work.
mbedle
Well-known member
I am pretty sure that the US Government actually paid the 200K on the website. So each citizen in the US paid 62 cents for the website.
Trust me, Vermont made its own.....
mbedle
Well-known member
I know that Vermont made its own exchange, but the citizens of Vermont were not the only ones to pay for their bad contractors work. Plus, a lot of the issues that cost the most money had nothing to do with the website. They spent a significant amount of the 200K on upgrading their very outdated medicare database.
steamboat1
New member
$200K. I think we're talking a bit more than that.
drjeff
Well-known member
If one's car is broken, would they take it to a politician to fix it or a mechanic?
Then why when people feel that our healthcare system is broken do they look to their politicians (the vast majority of whom aren't actual healthcare providers and have no clue what they day to day ins and outs of what goes into providing healthcare actually are) for answers?
As someone who does provide care to medicaid patients, most every day I'm in my office, if people actually understood how disfunctional and inefficient the medicaid system is compared to more traditional insurance and/or self pay systems are, and the detrimental effects that from a care givers prospective that trying to work with the medicaid system, the majority of those people who want a government run medicaid/single payer type system, even if they have 1 iota of critical thinking ability, would be very concerned of where the healthcare system in the United States appears to be heading.
What it ultimately gets down to, is there is a driven narrative by many that healthcare should be "free" and those people won't accept anything else in their mind than a system that they feel will get them "free" healthcare. The reality is that healthcare is a massive industry, and until those that want "free" healthcare can convince all the people who provide healthcare to work for free, all the companies who manufacture goods and services used in providing direct patient healthcare to do so for free, all the companies who build the buildings where healthcare is delivered to build them for free, all the towns and cities where various healthcare delivery sites are located to not tax those buildings, the electric and water companies that service those buildings to do so for free, etc, etc, etc. Healthcare is, and always will be a business.
rant over!
Quiros is a guilty! (back on thread topic now
)
Then why when people feel that our healthcare system is broken do they look to their politicians (the vast majority of whom aren't actual healthcare providers and have no clue what they day to day ins and outs of what goes into providing healthcare actually are) for answers?
As someone who does provide care to medicaid patients, most every day I'm in my office, if people actually understood how disfunctional and inefficient the medicaid system is compared to more traditional insurance and/or self pay systems are, and the detrimental effects that from a care givers prospective that trying to work with the medicaid system, the majority of those people who want a government run medicaid/single payer type system, even if they have 1 iota of critical thinking ability, would be very concerned of where the healthcare system in the United States appears to be heading.
What it ultimately gets down to, is there is a driven narrative by many that healthcare should be "free" and those people won't accept anything else in their mind than a system that they feel will get them "free" healthcare. The reality is that healthcare is a massive industry, and until those that want "free" healthcare can convince all the people who provide healthcare to work for free, all the companies who manufacture goods and services used in providing direct patient healthcare to do so for free, all the companies who build the buildings where healthcare is delivered to build them for free, all the towns and cities where various healthcare delivery sites are located to not tax those buildings, the electric and water companies that service those buildings to do so for free, etc, etc, etc. Healthcare is, and always will be a business.
rant over!
Quiros is a guilty! (back on thread topic now
)
I'm going to disagree. I have very good company provided healthcare for my family and pretty much always have for the bulk of my career. I don't want "Free Healthcare", but I do think universal/single payer is the better way to go. The US spends way to much per capita on healthcare; in the neighborhood of 18% of GDP.
There are quite literally dozens of countries, many of them with large populations and equally diverse demographics that have government run HC that runs in the neighborhood of 11% of their GDP. Many of these nations offer the same quality of care if not better than what's available in the US.
Such changes might affect profit margins for me professionally, but at a societal level, things would be better off. Like I said, dozens of examples of countries that prove this out.
There are quite literally dozens of countries, many of them with large populations and equally diverse demographics that have government run HC that runs in the neighborhood of 11% of their GDP. Many of these nations offer the same quality of care if not better than what's available in the US.
Such changes might affect profit margins for me professionally, but at a societal level, things would be better off. Like I said, dozens of examples of countries that prove this out.
The State took on MOST of the cost. The State made the decisions, not the feds. It's a big albatross around the neck of the current administration and a big reason why they are stepping down.
Also, VPR set out an article late last week demonstrating that the administration had information that suggested that things were not right at Jay and "took a calculated risk" to allow them to continue.
mbedle
Well-known member
Where are you getting that Vermont paid out of its budget 200K for the website? What I've read is that the majority of the costs associated with the website development and updating was paid by a grant from the government. Granted the state where the ones that picked the contractor that screwed things up, and should have gone after them to recoup some of the dollars spent.
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
This is pretty shocking (assuming it's true). Is this well-known up in Vermont or is it being swept-under-the-rug?
Complete government healthcare would bankrupt America. Not that it really matters I suppose, because we're going bankrupt without government healthcare anyway.
You do these 4 things:
1) Allow insurance companies to operate/compete across state borders
2) Stop aiding & abetting trial lawyers to "milk" the healthcare system
3) Stop subsidizing other nation's healthcare ( a massive cost that goes unmentioned because it's not politically correct)
4) Crack down on Medicare & Medicaid fraud (BILLIONS of dollars stolen EVERY year)
And you'd get a LONG way towards driving down American's healthcare costs. To Dr Jeff's point though, none of these will likely happen, because, well, politicians.
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
That was unbelievably reckless.
State of Vermont is trying the play the "lesser of two evils" excuse to absolve themselves of blame, when in reality they knew a crime was being committed.
But the "crime" was bringing $$$$ into Vermont and ostensibly creating some jobs, so Vermont now uses that as an excuse to "look the other way" and pretend nothing is wrong. Jaw-dropping stuff. "Well your honor, I knew investors were being stolen from, but the money was going to a cause that helped us, sooooooooo"
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
Also, it would have been extremely embarrassing for State of Vermont if the Jay Peak / Burke Ponzi scheme became public (which it did anyway), and that makes me wonder if Vermont HOPED Quiros & Company were going to get away with it?
I strongly suspect Vermont's leaders would have said absolutely nothing if Quiros could have kept this Ponzi Scheme running longer, rather than having the ugly truth come to light.
A BIG part of this story that seems to be lost on most people, is that State of Vermont only acted like this is a problem once the Feds got involved. Once the gig-was-up, Vermont then acted like this was a terrible crime, and worse, laughingly actually TOOK CREDIT in bringing it down! The balls these people have! They must think Vermonters are morons.
I strongly suspect Vermont's leaders would have said absolutely nothing if Quiros could have kept this Ponzi Scheme running longer, rather than having the ugly truth come to light.
A BIG part of this story that seems to be lost on most people, is that State of Vermont only acted like this is a problem once the Feds got involved. Once the gig-was-up, Vermont then acted like this was a terrible crime, and worse, laughingly actually TOOK CREDIT in bringing it down! The balls these people have! They must think Vermonters are morons.
steamboat1
New member
Yes the $200M cost for the website was paid for by a federal grant. The state of VT. however pays more than 50% of the estimated $52M annual cost to maintain the website.
Lawrence Miller is the head VT. healthcare reform:
"The bottom line, according to Lawrence Miller: The state expects to spend $198.7 million to develop its exchange — Vermont Health Connect. Those funds are federal. The exchange handles both individuals and families buying commercial insurance, and Vermonters who are eligible for Medicaid.
Miller also reported that the ongoing operating costs are $51.8 million annually, with the state covering just more than half, and the federal government the rest. Big numbers, Miller acknowledged, but he noted that much of the expense was updating the state's antiquated Medicaid enrollment system."
Quoted from an article in Seven Days.
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