Stenger and Quiros Ousted from Management of Jay Peak and Burke

[JimG.]

Non-residential tax rates are fixed. Not necessarily higher than residential.
Final Education tax rates are set by the town, mine below:
Town Homestead Nonresidential
Westfield 1.5636 1.5338

Thanks all for additional info, it is appreciated.

First, let me say I have no issue paying town and school taxes for my primary residence wherever that may be. My 3 sons have/are received/getting an excellent education at our public high school here (Arlington CSD in my case). I would not consider sending them to any other school system I have been so pleased. That includes any private/prep school.

But because of Act 60, I cannot consider VT as a second home location. And I have read nothing in these helpful responses that would make me feel otherwise.

If we decide to sell our NY home that would change my opinion, but as of today my home is pretty much paid off and we would like to keep the property for our sons if one of them decides to live in NY. As unlikely as that seems now, who knows.

One thought is to set up an irrevocable trust and to put the property in their name. That is the only way I can see to justify going to VT but then the issue of NY property taxes becomes my sons' issue and I don't want to burden them with that unless one of them actually lives here.

I know, serious first world issues.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Taxes are bad almost anywhere in the northeast. Like JimG with New York, I love New Jersey, but I'm looking to "flee" New Jersey because of this as well. The financial impairment from paying ~$12,000/year property taxes on a modest home, every year, over your life, equates to an absolutely staggering financial impairment, and if the average person knew how to use Excel and would realize this, there would be an absolute voting revolt.

 

[yeggous]

Taxes are bad almost anywhere in the northeast. Like JimG with New York, I love New Jersey, but I'm looking to "flee" New Jersey because of this as well. The financial impairment from paying ~$12,000/year property taxes on a modest home, every year, over your life, equates to an absolutely staggering financial impairment, and if the average person knew how to use Excel and would realize this, there would be an absolute voting revolt.

Here in Massachusetts I do not even understand this discussion. We have no such thing as school taxes. There is but one residential tax rate per town which quietly bakes in everything. And crazy high real estates taxes do not included the entire northeast. Massachusetts and Maine have middle-of-the-road property tax rates.
http://taxfoundation.org/blog/how-high-are-property-taxes-your-state

And New Hampshire's high property tax is offset by the zero income and sales tax. The net result is one of the lowest effective tax rates as long as you don't work out of state, which 17% of the state does. Those people pay high property taxes and income taxes... double whammy.

 

[Harvey]

We pay school tax on our 2nd property in NY (Adirondacks).

Our building is classified as a seasonal residence, meaning it's acknowledged that we would not have children in school.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Here in Massachusetts I do not even understand this discussion. We have no such thing as school taxes. There is but one residential tax rate per town which quietly bakes in everything. And crazy high real estates taxes do not included the entire northeast. Massachusetts and Maine have middle-of-the-road property tax rates.
http://taxfoundation.org/blog/how-high-are-property-taxes-your-state

Massachusetts is #18 on your list (which is from a very good source), which means only 34% of America is worse than MA in that regard. That's not very good.

 

[JimG.]

I don't mind paying property and school taxes (whether it is broken down as 2 taxes or just rolled into one). I believe in public education and I'm paying it for my children. And in my experience having 3 children in school, higher school taxes mean better schools. We moved from Putnam County where school taxes were lower but the schools sucked to Dutchess County where taxes are higher and so is the quality of public education. No such thing as a free lunch and I can't think of a better way to spend money.

I also don't mind continuing to pay after all my kids graduate. That's my investment in the future and in future generations.

But I'm not going to pay twice, especially to a place where my kids never lived or went to school. Frankly, I'm not thrilled with any of the tax options anywhere in NY, VT, or NH. Not interested in moving to ME.

I once kind of joked about getting a place near Montreal. Not joking anymore, that's going to be my next research project.

 

[MEtoVTSkier]

Here in Massachusetts I do not even understand this discussion. We have no such thing as school taxes. There is but one residential tax rate per town which quietly bakes in everything. And crazy high real estates taxes do not included the entire northeast. Massachusetts and Maine have middle-of-the-road property tax rates.
http://taxfoundation.org/blog/how-high-are-property-taxes-your-state

And New Hampshire's high property tax is offset by the zero income and sales tax. The net result is one of the lowest effective tax rates as long as you don't work out of state, which 17% of the state does. Those people pay high property taxes and income taxes... double whammy.

I wouldn't call all of Maine "middle of the road". The mill rate in this town was 27 last year. :angry:

 

[cdskier]

Non-residential tax rates are fixed. Not necessarily higher than residential.
Final Education tax rates are set by the town, mine below:
Town Homestead Nonresidential
Westfield 1.5636 1.5338

Apparently I haven't compared the rates in my town the past couple years. Non-residents now pay ever so slightly less in school taxes than residents (and did last year as well). In the 3 years prior to this year and last year, nonresidents paid a higher rate than residents. If I'm reading the VT Tax website correctly, any towns that spend more per pupil than some magical number will end up with nonresident rates lower than resident rates.

 

[yeggous]

Massachusetts is #18 on your list (which is from a very good source), which means only 34% of America is worse than MA in that regard. That's not very good.

That is within the middle two quartiles, and within one standard deviation of the mean. Not everything has to be one extreme or the other.

 

[BenedictGomez]

I once kind of joked about getting a place near Montreal. Not joking anymore, that's going to be my next research project.

What about a place near Mont Sutton? Probably cheap real estate I bet, and it's only 40 minutes to Jay Peak, 1 hour to Smuggs, etc...

 

[dlague]

Here in Massachusetts I do not even understand this discussion. We have no such thing as school taxes. There is but one residential tax rate per town which quietly bakes in everything. And crazy high real estates taxes do not included the entire northeast. Massachusetts and Maine have middle-of-the-road property tax rates.
http://taxfoundation.org/blog/how-high-are-property-taxes-your-state

And New Hampshire's high property tax is offset by the zero income and sales tax. The net result is one of the lowest effective tax rates as long as you don't work out of state, which 17% of the state does. Those people pay high property taxes and income taxes... double whammy.

Good point about NH. Used to live there and worked in MA so I had that double hit. Got smart and found a job in state with an increase and it was like doubled due to no income taxes.

Here in CO every one talks about low property tax rates but we have sales and income taxes and in some towns even local sales taxes as well. I would be curious what the overall tax rate is across each state.

 

[JimG.]

What about a place near Mont Sutton? Probably cheap real estate I bet, and it's only 40 minutes to Jay Peak, 1 hour to Smuggs, etc...

Sounds like a good place to start. Also closer to skiing at other mountains in Quebec than VT.

And I believe my wife would prefer living close to a nice city like Montreal.

 

[LONGBOARDR]

Sounds like a good place to start. Also closer to skiing at other mountains in Quebec than VT.

And I believe my wife would prefer living close to a nice city like Montreal.

I believe if you retain US citizenship you must file US income tax in addition to Canada.

Also Canada has a federal VAT and possible provincial taxes.

 

[JimG.]

I believe if you retain US citizenship you must file US income tax in addition to Canada.

Also Canada has a federal VAT and possible provincial taxes.

I need to look into all of the tax consequences; renouncing US citizenship is expensive as the US is one of only two countries in the world (the other is Eritrea) that charges an exit tax which in the US is a minimum of 10% of world wide assets.

It is probably cheaper to pay the extra taxes because with tax credits the hit is not that bad. I am already semi-retired so I don't think income taxes are going to be a big issue for me anyway.

 

[deadheadskier]

You can't just move to Canada and become a permanent resident if you want to. You would likely just be owning a vacation home, so property tax would be your only obligation and you'd be limited on the number of days you could spend there a year. So, this doesn't really help you avoid the situation of paying for two school systems. Not sure if PQ dings second home owners higher like some communities in VT does.

To go permanently there are basically two paths. You demonstrate you have a high demand job skill and apply for permanent residency to work there (usually requires a Canadian employer sponsorship) or if you are a high worth individual you can apply for residency through investment Visa. So, they have their own EB5 program :lol: though my understanding is the investment is guaranteed by the PQ government.

The US and Canada have tax treaties, so you don't get double whacked for dual citizenship.

 

[oldtimer]

Don't forget that the border crossing to Jay becomes tedious if done on a regular basis......

I need to look into all of the tax consequences; renouncing US citizenship is expensive as the US is one of only two countries in the world (the other is Eritrea) that charges an exit tax which in the US is a minimum of 10% of world wide assets.

It is probably cheaper to pay the extra taxes because with tax credits the hit is not that bad. I am already semi-retired so I don't think income taxes are going to be a big issue for me anyway.

 

[machski]

And if you renounce US citizenship and then want it back and get it again, don't leave the country again. CBP will have a field day with you if you do.

 

[JimG.]

More good info thanks.

Somehow, I don't feel as "free" as I did before I started looking into all of this. It seems nothing is "free" and "freedom" is limited which is counter to the definition of that word.

 

[JimG.]

Don't forget that the border crossing to Jay becomes tedious if done on a regular basis......

Never had a problem at the border but you are correct, it would become a hassle if done regularly.

DHS, I had no idea that Canada limits that number of days you can spend there if your property is a second/vacation property. I'm sure that's related to tax avoidance issues.

 

[deadheadskier]

It's six months. If you plan on living at your PQ residence more than that per year you need to apply for immigration status