Stowe vs Sugarbush...

[highpeaksdrifter]

Pardon me? I was referring to koreshot's post in the "which state" thread where he was being sarcastic (and not in a condescending way). No one's trying to be condescending.

By the way, I see no SB worshiping yet. It could get much worse. Isn't it ok that some of use love Sugarbush? Am I complaining about people who love and adore Whiteface or Stowe? Nope. Good for you. To each his own. Worship whatever area you like. I like Sugarbush. You pick Stowe. Cool. No big deal.

Over the last several years, alot of posters have held SB as far and away the best ski area in the East. I and others have held that while it is undoubtly in the conversation with the best in the East it has worthy competition.

It's kinda an ongoing AZ culture thing - catch up.

It's also kinda a joke with Greg as he is the Archbishop of the Church of Sugarbush.

 

[BushMogulMaster]

Just curious... How'd you like Burke?

I definitely enjoyed it. I think it's a fun area with a good atmosphere. The bumps were pretty rough (compared to what I'm used to at SB), but I definitely had a great time. I'll be skiing there again.

 

[BushMogulMaster]

Over the last several years, alot of posters have held SB as far and away the best ski area in the East. I and others have held that while it is undoubtly in the conversation with the best in the East it has worthy competition.

It's kinda an ongoing AZ culture thing - catch up.

It's also kinda a joke with Greg as he is the Archbishop of the Church of Sugarbush.

Gotcha. I'm the biggest SB fan there is, but I'm more than willing to admit that it's got competition. I think it's the best in the East, but I'm not saying that it's the best by a mile. I think it's got the edge over every other Eastern area I've skied. But there are plenty of absolutely fantastic areas in the East. Sugarbush has my loyalty, though.

By the way, if Greg is the Archbishop, I must admit to being the Pope of the Church of SB. For heaven's sake (pun intended), I did build the sugarbushhistory.com website and ski over 160 days there in the past 2 seasons .

 

[ski_resort_observer]

HPD........people have a right to advocate for whatever ski area they like, you know, like you do with Whiteface, whether it pisses you off or not.

BTW.....Greg is the Archbishop of MRG and Mogul Obsessivness or AMMO for short...if your going to flame someone at least use the correct title. :wink: :wink:

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

HPD........people have a right to advocate for whatever ski area they like, you know, like you do with Whiteface, whether it pisses you off or not.

BTW.....Greg is the Archbishop of MRG and Mogul Obsessivness or AMMO for short...if your going to flame someone at least use the correct title. :wink: :wink:

I'm going to try to explain my position on this one more time. I too think SB is a great mountain. How could anyone ski there and not think so? However, in the past many of the SB faithful have basically declared it the best in the East by far. IMO, they are not head and shoulders above some of there worth competitors.

I have stated this on many threads in the past and my opinion is often met with disbelief or dismissal. I never said people didn't have the right to advocate for their mountain, so how about you don't put words in my mouth.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

I haven't skied Stowe, so I cannot make a valid comparison. If you don't want to read my post because of that, it's perfectly fine with me . However, there is one clause here: if you do read my post, DO NOT respond with a post about "how ignorant I am for trying to discuss this without having ever skied Stowe." I know that. Now you know that. Read it for what it is... a partially-valid opinion.

I will (by my pro-Sugarbush nature :wink: ) have to point a couple of things out by sheer facts (and a lot of speculation ) that I think make Sugarbush better. First of all, contrary to your opinion (which I'm fine with, and respect), I personally dislike top to bottom lifts because they create a line nightmare on busy days and do not disperse the crowd well. Sugarbush, mostly Mt. Ellen, does a perfect job of dispersing the crowd even on the busiest of days. Because of the GMX/Summit/NRX setup, there is practically never more than a 5 minute wait anywhere. Throw Sunny D and Inverness into the mix, and we're golden... very few lift lines.

As far as trees, I can't imagine that Stowe has much better trees than the marked trees at the Bush + Slidebrook + the unmarked woods that you may not have yet experienced. However... I could be wrong since I have not skied Stowe.

I've heard a lot of talk about the front 4 or whatever those 4 great expert trails are. But I can't believe that they're any better than your combo of Middle Earth + C-Rock Run + Rumble + Liftline + Twist + Hammerhead + Tumbler + Spills + Mall + Lower FIS + Black Diamond + Exterm + Bravo. Again, I need to ski Stowe and ski those 4 trails before making a true argument. I would just be in sheer disbelief if those 4 trails were any better than the ones I mentioned. Sugarbush just has a bit more expert terrain than Stowe (35% vs. 25%) in general.

From the reports that I have heard, Stowe does not often have great bumps. Either because the skiers there don't ski bumps, or their occupied with something else. If there aren't good bumps, I don't want to ski there. You can keep your trees and groomed steeps to yourself :wink:

Based on the stats and the maps, Sugarbush has a little more to offer variety and terrain-wise. More acreage, more trails (although I do respect Stowe for their trail naming scheme, aka giving one trail one name, and not having "upper" "upper-middle" "middle" "lower-middle" "almost lower" and "lower" names :lol: ).

As far as snow, yeah, Stowe probably gets a little more. Like maybe an additional 15 or 20" per year. Not enough to make me change my mind. Besides, Sugarbush generally gets more than they report, because the measurements are mostly taken from Lincoln Peak. More often than not, Mt. Ellen gets anywhere from 1 to 6 inches more on the summit than LP. So while Stowe probably gets a little more, Mt. Ellen at least is close enough that it doesn't make a difference to me.

I'm really not dissing Stowe, and I will definitely have to ski there because I'm sure it's awesome. I'm just a Sugarbush guy, and always will be. I simply couldn't watch this thread without adding some input!

Now... the one thing that REALLY ticks me off about Stowe is that it simply is not affordable. You cannot get a discount for anything at Stowe. You know they're the only resort in Vermont that does not give tickets to VT Gold Card holders (a card held by some upper management in the VT industry)? They don't give free or discounted tickets to other ski area employees, but their employees can often get free or discounted tickets at all of the other areas (with a letter from their supervisor). It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth about the general attitude (which may or may not be what it appears).


Okay... I'm done. Now somebody that's actually skied them both can post an informed opinion

A waste of a post since you've never skied Stowe..:sad:

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

GrilledSteeze... why don't you make this a poll just for fun?

polls are for gapers

 

[Lostone]

So... you would like the title of the thread to be "Which is better, Stowe or Sugarbush, and it had better be Stowe"? :-?

I think that if you are running the front four, continuously, Stowe has it. Other than that, I think Sugarbush is it. I think they have a better diversity of terrain.

I think there are less people, and I think the people at Sugarbush are friendlier. I've heard it from many.

I did ski Stowe for a year on a pass. Got in 48 days and had some great days. I am not going to make believe it isn't a great mountain.

The next year, I tried a number of mountains, and found I like Sugarbush better. I started skiing there more regularly. That was while I was in a ski house between Stowe and Sugarbush.

When I first joined the house, it was a Stowe house. As time went on, more and more days were spent at Sugarbush. Now, I would say most of the members would refer to it as a Sugarbush house that is close enough to ski Stowe.

Count me as one of those who are avid Sugarbush fans. Taht was so before I bought my condo here. I have voted with my money... then with my feet :wink:

 

[campgottagopee]

I vote Stowe. Skied both, like both, but give the edge to Stowe for the endless fun you can have in the Notch. That and the fact you can ski over to Smuggs or down the other side of Mansfield into Underhill. Just way fun stuff for me.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

How about I break it down this way...add yours to the list..

Sweet trails at Sugarbush...Castlerock Run, Liftline, Rumble, Cotillion, Middle Earth, Paradise, Ripcord, Spillsville, Organgrinder, Twist, The Mall, Steins Run, Sleeper, FIS..upper and lower, Jester, Exterminator, Walts Run, Inverness, Bravo-Encore, Brambles, and many more..

Sweet Trails at Stowe..Goat, National, Starr, Lookout, Chin-Clip, Gondolier, Perry Merrill, Cliff Trail, Nosedive, Bypass, Lookout, Hayride, Ridgeview to Sunrise to Standard to Crossover combo..Lord to North slope combo, Daltons, Main Street, Whirlaway, Sterling, Smugglers, and many more..

As for tree skiing...Stowe has alot more tree skiing..hands down..no question about it IMHO..

As for Top to Bottom runs..that's what Stowe is all about..and stays steeper longer than Da Bush..

As for snowfall..Stowe wins hands down..

As for operating hours..well Stowe opens earlier..

As for Town..yes the town of Stowe is better..way better than Waitsfield..

As for hot trick hoes..well neither has many...lol

 

[BushMogulMaster]

As for tree skiing...Stowe has alot more tree skiing..hands down..no question about it IMHO..

More acreage of tree skiing, or more trees that you like? Slidebrook itself accounts for over 2000 acres of backcountry and tree skiing. Stowe does not have 2000 acres of trees.

As for Top to Bottom runs..that's what Stowe is all about..and stays steeper longer than Da Bush..

Can't argue with that one. Bush definitely lacks T2B runs for sure. There are a few, but not many.

As for snowfall..Stowe wins hands down..

Not by that much. As I said, Sugarbush has been rather conservative lately with snowfall totals. I've proven this with a ruler/measuring tape and a digital camera! I don't know how accurate Stowe's reports are. Perhaps you could enlighten me?

As for operating hours..well Stowe opens earlier..

By a half hour. If that half hour is that important to you, more power to you.

As for Town..yes the town of Stowe is better..way better than Waitsfield..

Definitely disagree here. I have spent a lot of time in the town of Stowe, so I can have an opinion here and you don't have to dismiss it as a "waste." I don't like the (forgive me if I offend anyone) generally yuppy elitist vibe that I get hanging around that town. Not everywhere, but just in general. Doesn't feel very "Vermont" to me. Sure, there's more to do in Stowe than in Waitsfield (which, by the way, Sugarbush is in Warren and Fayston, not Waitsfield). But I like the atmosphere and the ambiance of the MRV.

As for hot trick hoes..well neither has many...lol

Well, can't do much about that one, can we :lol:



As for great runs at the Bush, I would add the following to your list:

Hammerhead, Tumbler, Semi-Tough, Morning Star, Cliffs (when the conditions are right), Black Diamond.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

i believe Mount Mansfield has more than 2,000 acres of Backcountry and trees..can anybody confirm??? If you put Stowe down for the Yuppies..that's a cop out..there are tons of yuppies almost everywhere in New England and ski country in general..aside from the dirtbags(I was once one) it's mostly people with large disposable incomes...not a bad thing..

 

[BushMogulMaster]

i believe Mount Mansfield has more than 2,000 acres of Backcountry and trees..can anybody confirm??? If you put Stowe down for the Yuppies..that's a cop out..there are tons of yuppies almost everywhere in New England and ski country in general..aside from the dirtbags(I was once one) it's mostly people with large disposable incomes...not a bad thing..

Well, that's your opinion. Aren't we comparing this to Sugarbush? May I have an opinion? Or is yours the only valid opinion?

I get a more "yuppy" vibe from Stowe than Sugarbush. Maybe you don't. That's really ok. All I'm saying is that it's okay for me to have my own opinion. I dislike the town of Stowe in comparison with the MRV.

Part of the elitist yuppy vibe (that I personally get) comes from my issues with the pricing and lack of flexibility in that department. So perhaps my perception of the town is slightly tainted by my issues with mountain-related decisions. But the MRV still wins in my book.

I'm not going to get into this further at the moment. You know my opinion about the town, you've completely dismissed my opinions about the mountains (including the ones that don't rest on whether I've skied Stowe or not). You've completely ignored the fact that I said Stowe is probably a great mountain, and that I'd love to ski it. I guess I'm just not allowed to have my own opinion .

 

[BushMogulMaster]

i believe Mount Mansfield has more than 2,000 acres of Backcountry and trees..can anybody confirm???

You may be right, I honestly don't know about that. Sugarbush encompasses 4000 total acres, 508 of which are in-bounds pistes. Certainly the other 3500 isn't all good tree/bc skiing, but I'm quite certain that somewhere between 2500 and 3000 of those additional acres are in fact skiiable bc/tree skiing (as long as your not afraid of some tight trees :wink: )

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Well, that's your opinion. Aren't we comparing this to Sugarbush? May I have an opinion? Or is yours the only valid opinion?

I get a more "yuppy" vibe from Stowe than Sugarbush. Maybe you don't. That's really ok. All I'm saying is that it's okay for me to have my own opinion. I dislike the town of Stowe in comparison with the MRV.

Part of the elitist yuppy vibe (that I personally get) comes from my issues with the pricing and lack of flexibility in that department. So perhaps my perception of the town is slightly tainted by my issues with mountain-related decisions. But the MRV still wins in my book.

I'm not going to get into this further at the moment. You know my opinion about the town, you've completely dismissed my opinions about the mountains (including the ones that don't rest on whether I've skied Stowe or not). You've completely ignored the fact that I said Stowe is probably a great mountain, and that I'd love to ski it. I guess I'm just not allowed to have my own opinion .

Yeah but you've never skied Stowe so your posts in this thread were a complete waster..and doesn't Sugarbush charge like 70 bucks a day??

 

[BushMogulMaster]

Yeah but you've never skied Stowe so your posts in this thread were a complete waster..and doesn't Sugarbush charge like 70 bucks a day??

Didn't you read the top of my first post? I said that I hadn't skied Stowe, and that if you didn't think my opinions would be valid then don't bother reading/responding to my post. I don't see what the issue is. I made is clear that my opinions were based on obvious facts, and what I know from trusted sources. I said I want to ski Stowe so that I can really compare. I guess SRO was right (darn old folk anyway), I should have kept my mouth shut. Although I don't think anyone else took issue with it. They took it for what it was.

As for prices, Sugarbush is $66 for a day pass. Pretty expensive, but I have a season pass so it's irrelevant to me personally. The difference is that Sugarbush offers affordable options such promotions, discounts, and the Mt. Ellen pass. Sugarbush also generally entertains discounts for other ski area employees (assuming appropriate letters and documentation are in place).

 

[wa-loaf]

What's with all the :wink::wink:. Like you guys who like SB better are much more in the know then those of us who like Stowe.

That’s condescending bull shit. SB worship threads always end up pissing me off.

Aside from the BMM - GSS battle going on, I think most of us take it all pretty tongue and cheek. Besides Sugarloaf is better than either. :razz:

 

[twinplanx]

Haven't skied either area more than once but if I may chime in here I might as well point out the Mad bus(FREE) will pick up BC skiers at the road at the bottom of the SB area that connects LP w/ MT. Ellen. Good luck getting a ride from those yuppies at Stowe at the bottom of MT Mansfield

 

[BushMogulMaster]

Aside from the BMM - GSS battle going on, I think most of us take it all pretty tongue and cheek. Besides Sugarloaf is better than either. :razz:

I don't want it to be a battle. I just don't understand the hostility when I made myself very clear from my first post.

Oh well. No hard feelings. I've enjoyed GSS's posts to this point (minus a few :wink: ) and I won't let this little disagreement be an issue.

 

[deadheadskier]

May I have an opinion? Or is yours the only valid opinion?

You've completely ignored the fact that I said Stowe is probably a great mountain, and that I'd love to ski it. I guess I'm just not allowed to have my own opinion .

You most certainly can have an opinion of the 'town' of Stowe, but not the ski area. In many ways, I agree, MRV and the people that hang there is a far more laid back place than Stowe. That being said, have you experienced Stowe's laid back side? Have you hung out with George at Picasso or Boo at Ladies Invited and really gotten to know the local ski bum population? If your judgements are based purely on hanging out at the Rusty Nail on a Saturday night or at some of the high end places in town, you really haven't gotten to 'know' the town of Stowe. There's more to Stowe than millionaire yuppies from Montreal owning McMansions in Robinson Springs.


As for the mountain, no you are not entitled to an opinion. You've stated over and over everything you love about Sugarbush. Many of those opinions I agree with you on. Sugarbush is a GREAT mountain. Feel free to start your own thread then discussing why Sugarbush is so great and save your opinions for there as you have none in this thread is it pertains to a place you have never skied.

You have no place to argue that the Bush has more or better back country. There is a ton there, but I think most people who have skied both and experienced all there is to have in the Notch and the few hundred acres above treeline at Stowe will tell you, the comparison is close, but Stowe has the MOST lift accessible back country in NE. The notch is a HUGE place on both sides of the road.

You also have no place to discuss snowfall either. The difference isn't huge, but there is a difference. That hour north makes a difference as does Stowe's proximity to weather patterns coming off of the broad part of Lake Champlain, where as Sugarbush falls more to the south.

I can understand how some might like Sugarbush more. They do have a better trail network and to me, a better overall vibe. It's no wonder to me why so many people love it. I do myself, but I love the back country that Stowe has that Sugarbush does not. That is what makes me choose Stowe over and over.. Do yourself a favor and ski Tusk, Waterfall, Epiphany Bowl, Profanity et. al. .......nothing at Sugarbush can compare. The Birthday bowls off of Spruce easily compare to Slidebrook.

I guess the point I'm making is that you and your 'opinion' BushMogulMaster, make you look like a total 'HOMER'. By all means, love the mountain you love, but until you ski somewhere and not just once, but a good twenty times under all conditions, you really don't have an opinion.

I live and ski in Maine now. What you're doing would be like me getting into an arguement as to what is better, Sunday River or Saddleback. I don't have an opinion as I've never skied Saddleback. Likewise, no, you are not entitled to an opinion about the skiing at Stowe.