sugarloafers pass pulled for no legit reason

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

It's called the right to refuse service..Blue mountain can ban me for fast skiing on a slow skiing trail or not following the skiers responsibility code..then I'd have to slum it and ski Camelback..

 

[bosshogg]

Boyne/USA Bans Blogger from Property

Here are the links to the sugarloaftoday.com discussion and the Teton Gravity Research discussion:

http://sugarloaftoday.com/chat/viewtopic.php?t=2415

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150315

and a funny piece from the CV Daily Planet:

http://sugarloaftoday.com/chat/viewtopic.php?t=2416

 

[drjeff]

I think you have this dead wrong.

Look at it from the point of view of the resort. Somebody has just been killed on your mountain. The senior staff have to deal with all the unpleasant required duties that go along with a death on your mountain. The family notification. The press since it's a visiting mountain school kid. It's a very upsetting and emotional time. I've heard stories from Skip King about when he had to do it at Sunday River. What a suck thing to have as part of your job duties. These guys aren't priests or funeral directors and don't have the repetitions to get used to dealing with this kind of thing. You then see some tool taking pot shots at you about the whole thing on your defacto resort message board. Into the penalty box with a game misconduct. I think they did exactly the right thing. I'll bet anybody who has had to do that particular unpleasant task at any ski resort in the world applauded them for doing it.

+1

 

[RootDKJ]

Lots of opinions in this one and I can relate to both sides. I think pulling the pass was a bit extreme, and SL is taking some liberties with the interpretation of their terms of service.

 

[tjf67]

Good thing for Highwaystar that Boyne doesn't own Killington, he'd be in the Rutland jail by now :lol:

Blahaha good one:beer:

 

[skircher]

followup

Clearly, I cannot respond to all the above posts and I understand in some cases my answers have not been well received or in some cases misinterpreted.

I certainly empathize with everyone who is concerned with any curtailment of free dialogue on these forums. Again, if you will look at the numerous activity I and others from Boyne have had on other forums you will see I fully respect this new medium and those who participate in it actively. I do personally think that for this to be even more effective civility should be carried in the tone of the conversations.

Let me state clearly, posting negative comments about us will not be cause for this type of action under our long-standing season pass policy.

Those comments were not the sole cause in this case, as I understand it.

The individual wanted to keep this between him and Mr. Costello and therefore I cannot comment on the other reasons this action was taken.

However, seeing the misunderstanding of the events and the perception that censorship occurred solely on the comment made, it is clear that most of you do not understand the background events of the people involved. Much of which I do not even know myself.......

Your reactions make sense to me and even though the harsh words hurt.

I personally questioned several days ago why this seemed to be the appropriate response and asked for the meeting of the folks involved out in Maine to put this behind them - hopefully with full reinstatement of privileges for this young man.

In addition, I agree with all of you that taking away privileges for comments alone is not the correct next step. Engaging in mutual understanding and hopefully constructive dialogue should be in my opinion and will be reiterated to the senior mgt team.

We want and encourage constructive feedback and understand that this forum and others is meant to be free flowing. We hope for that feedback to be constructive and respectful.

The feedback here is appreciated albeit painful to read, as it is clear our team over reacted in an emotional state.

Unfortunately, my answers only seemed to fuel some of your concerns about censorship. I apologize for our team's actions, that perception and for doing a poor job of communicating - I maybe should have waited a few more hours before posting and gotten a cup of coffee.

Again respectfully submitted,

SK

 

[tcharron]

Good thing for Highwaystar that Boyne doesn't own Killington, he'd be in the Rutland jail by now :lol:

LOL! If that's a likely outcome, let's get 'em to buy! :-D

 

[bigbob]

Even though I do not agree with the words posted by Mr Von Zipe, for these forums to work I feel they have to be self policing. Otherwise, I feel that opinions will cease to flow, weather they are appropriate or not. Kinda of like what was considered by this countries founding Fathers over 200 years ago.

 

[Vortex]

I have met Jim Costello and find him to be a stand up guy.

I apprecaite Sk posting here and other forums. I trust that after the dust settles things will be clearer.

Kind of hard to comment when I don't know all the facts.


I am sorry or the family.

I respect that Boyne has let those who are on the properties handle certain issues, but are stilll willing to respond reguadless of whom makes the descions.

 

[4aprice]

It's very interesting to see that the Resorts actually monitor boards like these. Also after now being around a resort consistently for the last five years and even at the bigger ones, its surprising what a small community they actually become. I know that mountain personnel know who I am even if I never really had contact with them. If you misbehave they're going to know it.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ

 

[Vortex]

I like moderated sites better. Just my opinion. I think people who look at boards to help make descions on where to ski look more at places like the alpine zone or the Sunday River board.

A little ballance allows one to make an easier decsion..

TGR has its base. To each their own.

 

[Shroud]

The TGR response makes it obvious that Boyne will lose out on revenue across all of their resorts. Sure, it might be a minimal hit to their bottom line when a few people cancel planned vacations and a bunch of other people choose to ski elsewhere. The fact remains that it was all avoidable if someone with half a clue took the time to see that plenty of people would view the pass pulling as heavy-handed and a freedom of speech issue.

It certainly makes me think twice about skiing at Loon, SR or the Loaf given all the other options in VT, NH and ME. Needlessly giving potential customers reasons to choose your competitors is bad business.

 

[Shroud]

I like moderated sites better. Just my opinion. I think people who look at boards to help make descions on where to ski look more at places like the alpine zone or the Sunday River board.

A little ballance allows one to make an easier decsion..

TGR has its base. To each their own.

I understand your point but TGR does more to get me excited about skiing in general than just about any other site out there. The quality of skiing, knowledge and trip reports posted on that site throughout the year is second to none even if the level of skiing showcased there is far above my ability. I'm a regular reader of alpinezone but I think it's very easy to underestimate just how many people read TGR.

 

[Phildozer]

It's called the right to refuse service..Blue mountain can ban me for fast skiing on a slow skiing trail or not following the skiers responsibility code..then I'd have to slum it and ski Camelback..

They *could* do that if you were physically capable of skiing fast!

 

[Vortex]

I understand your point but TGR does more to get me excited about skiing in general than just about any other site out there. The quality of skiing, knowledge and trip reports posted on that site throughout the year is second to none even if the level of skiing showcased there is far above my ability. I'm a regular reader of alpinezone but I think it's very easy to underestimate just how many people read TGR.

I understand the passion and knowledge. My point was many of them have already developed opinions through experience.

 

[dmc]

He's a local and well known by the administration at Sugarloaf. He's been a vocal critic for a long time. This may have just been the act that pushed him over the edge.

That said, the board is self policing, he was immediately called on it and apologized not long after. It probably should have been over at that point. Marketing called him in and its sounds like words were said and then the pass was taken. Does the mountain have the legal right to do this? Yes. Was it probably a smart thing to do? Probably not. Now they have a possible PR problem.

thanks for the context.... throwing the Alpine Zone in the middle of an emotional disagreement involving a death is bad form IMHO... We have no idea what this guy is like.. What his relationship with the hill is.. any of that stuff...

The comment was out of line... Acting with emotion is well within tolerance ...

 

[loafer89]

I have issues with this part of the response from Boyne Management regarding the Sugarloaf chat site:

Hopefully, this forum can be one of less irrational conspiracy theory and more objective feedback and dialogue. If it does not it will become shut out as a source of information.


Shut out a ski chat website?

 

[Trekchick]

He's a local and well known by the administration at Sugarloaf. He's been a vocal critic for a long time. This may have just been the act that pushed him over the edge.

That said, the board is self policing, he was immediately called on it and apologized not long after. It probably should have been over at that point. Marketing called him in and its sounds like words were said and then the pass was taken. Does the mountain have the legal right to do this? Yes. Was it probably a smart thing to do? Probably not. Now they have a possible PR problem.

I think this is one of the clearest posts in this thread.

I've got the idea that the guy who got his pass pulled is a bit of a radical loud mouth who needs to learn when to shut up, especially when delicate matters such as this girls death are concerned. However, SL authorities would have been well served if they/he/she had counted to ten before taking action.

I'm guessing that many folks got hot under the collar during an especially difficult time and "stuff" went down that we'll never really know about.

one
two
three
four................

 

[Geoff]

I understand your point but TGR does more to get me excited about skiing in general than just about any other site out there. The quality of skiing, knowledge and trip reports posted on that site throughout the year is second to none even if the level of skiing showcased there is far above my ability. I'm a regular reader of alpinezone but I think it's very easy to underestimate just how many people read TGR.

I think it's easy to overestimate how few people actually bother to read any skiing message board. Most people aren't going to bother sifting through the 95% crap factor on a message board like TGR to actually extract anything useful. The vast majority of potential customers are intermediate. TGR is going to have no value to them at all.

...and going back on-topic....

It's pretty clear that the guy who got his pass yanked at Sugarloaf is going to get his pass back. In my opinion, he really did need that level of dope slap under those circumstances. It's not like Sugarloaf crafted a press release that they launched on the PR Newswire saying they had great conditions on the day the death occured. I'm sure the various quotes from "an official" that made the news came from a Q&A from a phone call or conference call. Most of the time, it's fine to take pot shots at resort management. This is a clear instance where it wasn't. I think Boyne drew a line in the sand at the exact correct spot.

 

[SLyardsale]

I have issues with this part of the response from Boyne Management regarding the Sugarloaf chat site:

Hopefully, this forum can be one of less irrational conspiracy theory and more objective feedback and dialogue. If it does not it will become shut out as a source of information.


Shut out a ski chat website?

Thats the edited version. SK's original post had the sentence above ending like this:

and those who participate will be not welcome to enjoy that great mountain.

Thats where I took issue