SuperPasses 20/21

[x10003q]

My comments were not just about the Wasatch areas. Crystal, Jackson Hole, Aspen, and Deer Valley didn't have crowding issues before IKON.....



The State tourism marketing arm has realized that their efforts with the "Big 5" and other marketing promotions have led to a lot of crowding problems. At last check the State was planning on dialing back the marketing this year.

Crystal has had crowding/parking problems for years due to the one way in from Enumclaw, minimal lodging and not enough parking. The 2004 Master Development Plan includes 2 more parking lots and a 500 car parking "structure" that have not been built. The pass has made it worse, but they knew there were parking problems in 2004.
https://skimap.org/data/193/1460/1392057371.pdf

 

[KustyTheKlown]

crystal is a beds problem as much as a parking and roads problem. wild that there is not more lodging up there.

 

[thetrailboss]

Is there any good SLC full season option anymore? Would you consider relocating? You said your friends actually moved up to MT, correct?

Honestly, this is making me consider what I can do that is best for me and opening me up to consider options. Loyalty to one or two areas now apparently means nothing.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

get powmow or snowbasin and augment with ikon base. thats what i would do. no idea what powmow/snowbasin costs, but seems to be the only reasonable option for a SLCer who skis mostly weekends.

and dont say they are too far. they arent too far. they are further than the cottonwoods, but are not too far.

 

[machski]

Aspen OWNS part of Alterra, so that change was a no-brainer and easy to appease their locals/

Jackson Hole spoke up LAST SEASON after its locals went batshit crazy and gave them IKON Base passes. So they spoke up again.

You must not know about WHO owns Snowbird now and his history of terrible business decisions. Just google "POWDR" and "Park City Lawsuit" and you'll quickly see how incompetent they are.

The next thing that I expect Snowbird to now do is to increase season pass prices and watch as those numbers continue to fall and wonder why that is.

Yes, you have a point on Powdr and past decisions. I am not shocked they did nothing with Snowbird on Ikon and you shouldn't be either. I said this on a previous post, Powdr is deep in with the Ikon pass, having their Copper and Eldora resorts unlimited without blackouts at both levels. Does not shock me they didn't want to rock the Ikon boat. Sucks for Alta as they seem to be smashed into what Bird does on the pass, but even if they pulled out, Alta may be better when you could get there as the up valley days wouldn't change.

I have to think the base plus is a baby step for Ikon this year. I bet the base gets more restrictive in future years more akin to the Epic local with regards to the marque resorts and partners on that pass.

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[thetrailboss]

Yes, you have a point on Powdr and past decisions. I am not shocked they did nothing with Snowbird on Ikon and you shouldn't be either. I said this on a previous post, Powdr is deep in with the Ikon pass, having their Copper and Eldora resorts unlimited without blackouts at both levels. Does not shock me they didn't want to rock the Ikon boat. Sucks for Alta as they seem to be smashed into what Bird does on the pass, but even if they pulled out, Alta may be better when you could get there as the up valley days wouldn't change.

I have to think the base plus is a baby step for Ikon this year. I bet the base gets more restrictive in future years more akin to the Epic local with regards to the marque resorts and partners on that pass.

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I thought this year we would see changes to IKON base. Indeed, Aspen and JH protected themselves, but other than that, nothing changed. Someone said here that the deal with the partners was a 3-year commitment. Any confirmation of that?

 

[thetrailboss]

get powmow or snowbasin and augment with ikon base. thats what i would do. no idea what powmow/snowbasin costs, but seems to be the only reasonable option for a SLCer who skis mostly weekends.

and dont say they are too far. they arent too far. they are further than the cottonwoods, but are not too far.

I am indeed considering becoming part of the problem and going to IKON, but holding my nose as I do it. It's clear to me that Snowbird doesn't give a shit about our business.

 

[Edd]

It’d be interesting if they split the baby (hate that phrase) and sacrificed Snowbird on the Ikon altar and kept Alta local pass only. The incredibly stupid skier-only rule aside, that could keep the most people happy.


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[thetrailboss]

It’d be interesting if they split the baby (hate that phrase) and sacrificed Snowbird on the Ikon altar and kept Alta local pass only. The incredibly stupid skier-only rule aside, that could keep the most people happy.


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It isn’t happening. Not for 20-21 at least. Alta is certainly not upset about the money. Second new flashy website in three seasons.


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[pauldotcom]

It’d be interesting if they split the baby (hate that phrase) and sacrificed Snowbird on the Ikon altar and kept Alta local pass only. The incredibly stupid skier-only rule aside, that could keep the most people happy.

Ever been to Alta? Snowboarding would be miserable. All of the good terrain requires traversing, similar to MRG but on steroids.

 

[abc]

Ever been to Alta? Snowboarding would be miserable. All of the good terrain requires traversing, similar to MRG but on steroids.

A: Another
L: Long
T: Traverse
A: AGAIN!

 

[KustyTheKlown]

yea, that traverse from sugarloaf to collins, basically impossible on a board. traversing out to catherine's area? nope not gonna happen. devil's castle? also nope. even the wildcat high traverse would be stupid on a snowboard.

 

[kingslug]

Which is why I question why they want to go there..Snowbird is much better for a board. Just a case of wanting what you can't have.

 

[pauldotcom]

That's precisely what it is. Everyone wants what they can't have. And let's be real - the snow is usually better at Alta because no boarding is allowed. Bumps are also better placed.

 

[abc]

And let's be real - the snow is usually better at Alta because no boarding is allowed. Bumps are also better placed.

I reserve my judgement on that.

Let's hypothetically speaking, Alta allows boarding. After a month or so, 90% of the boarders who "want to have what they can't" had gotten stuck on the flats long enough they never come back. The 10% who DO come back are probably expert boarder who CAN hack the traverse. Would they degrade the snow any worse than a bunch of intermediate skiers side-slipping down the bump field?

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy Alta doesn't allow clueless boarders. But I'm not convince it's all that big a deal. Taos allowed boarding what, a few years back? Were the snow quality and bump fields noticeably worse now than before?

 

[BenedictGomez]

Were the snow quality and bump fields noticeably worse now than before?

I dont even know what people mean by "snow quality", but bumps were worse, and I've never been there. Beginner & Intermediate snowboarders harm bump formation & bump quality. I dont understand why people still debate this as much as I dont understand people debating whether the earth is flat.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Today I received emails from Breckenridge, Stowe, Vail, and Park City, all timestamped precisely at 10:02am.

 

[abc]

bumps were worse, and I've never been there.

???

 

[BenedictGomez]

???

Empirically: Science (which is what I meant by my flat earth comments). Science understands how nice moguls are formed, and it's not how snowboarders generally navigate mogul fields.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/how-skiers-move-moguls-uphill

Anecdotally: Ever been to Alta, Deer Valley, and MRG? Absolutely, positively, gloriously perfect mogul fields.

 

[abc]

Empirically: Science (which is what I meant by my flat earth comments). Science understands how nice moguls are formed, and it's not how snowboarders generally navigate mogul fields.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/how-skiers-move-moguls-uphill

Anecdotally: Ever been to Alta, Deer Valley, and MRG? Absolutely, positively, gloriously perfect mogul fields.

I asked specifically about Taos, which disallowed boarders until a couple years back, for first hand real world comparison to verify the “theory”.