Tenney Mountain

[Newpylong]

It is not as simple as putting a larger motor in and cranking the speed up. Lifts are engineered for a certain rope speed (or range). That is everything from the braking system, bullwheels, bearings, controls, drive, etc and so on. Modifications could add up quickly.

 

[AdironRider]

This. A very, very quick way to burn money.

While their lifts are notoriously slow, I think the public is more tolerant of that than most here think. Especially for the cheap prices they offer. In the right marketing hands, it's spun as a nostalgic advantage. Pleasant (nee Shawnee) has run for 86 years without a HSQ and is just getting their first installed now. And they're in the just as crowded MWV market.

The vast majority of the skiing public is not ok with old fixed grips. Even a brand new install is going to come across as "old" to most customers because the tech is old.

It is the number one complaint at most Indy operations, and its not close.

Shawnee has a distinct advantage being the closest ski area to Portland ME by at least 20 minutes, and Tenney does not have the same advantage. You have to drive further than Ragged or Sunapee, which both have multiple high speed lifts, or past Pats Peak where fixed grip lifts make sense given their size. That said, even they (Shawnee) just dropped the money on a high speed because their clientele demand it.

 

[bigbob]

Tenney has a very big advantage over Ragged. You can see it from I-93. Easy to get to!

 

[SkiNewEngland.net]

Tenney has very long spacing on the double chairs. Could they crank it up to the max under code of 500 fpm? That would save 2 min right there with only the cost of an upgraded motor if even that.

Like many other fixed grip lifts, the Hornet is not run at full speed due in part to loading concerns.

 

[2planks2coasts]

Tenney has a very big advantage over Ragged. You can see it from I-93. Easy to get to!

Yep. It's also the exact same driving distance from most everywhere in greater Boston and significantly cheaper. They don't need a HSQ to be successful.

 

[doublediamond]

What is the max speed of Hornet? With the spacing time under normal ops (at least under Sir Mike, didn’t make it there this year) it felt on the order of over 12 seconds. There should be practically no concern over loading/unloading with that spacing.

Even a bump from 425 to 450 would shave off 45-50 seconds.

 

[DoublePlanker]

They need the HSQ.

Egan mentioned T-bars. Would be cool to expand with a t-bar to develop a gladed pod lookers right of the current terrain.

 

[Newpylong]

What is the max speed of Hornet? With the spacing time under normal ops (at least under Sir Mike, didn’t make it there this year) it felt on the order of over 12 seconds. There should be practically no concern over loading/unloading with that spacing.

Even a bump from 425 to 450 would shave off 45-50 seconds.

410 is normal speed.

45-50 seconds is not going to get the Yukons with Retrievers from the towns that start with a W south of the border to come.

 

[deadheadskier]

Yep. It's also the exact same driving distance from most everywhere in greater Boston and significantly cheaper. They don't need a HSQ to be successful.

Day tickets are a great value there still for sure. Season Passes? Meh. Still $400. Ragged is $429 and you get two high speed chairs.

I guess I just have a hard time understanding your position that they can be successful with a 6000' FG chair as the primary lift. There's literally only one other example of this left in New England with Smuggs. They can get away with it because that chair services arguably the best expert terrain in the East. People still complain about it all the time though. Even Magic the Black chair is 5200, but again it services excellent expert terrain. Tenney has some cool trails, but they're very low angle, they get far less snow than even Magic and are lower in elevation, so much less reliable on natural snow.

Maybe you're right, but it would appear that every other area in the market thinks differently.

 

[snoseek]

Yeah for 429 I get a well run area, fast lifts, better terrain (imo) and 5 days at jay. They need a high speed lift and a compelling pass product to beat that...like they need to at the very least go on the Indy pass.

 

[thetrailboss]

Yeah for 429 I get a well run area, fast lifts, better terrain (imo) and 5 days at jay. They need a high speed lift and a compelling pass product to beat that...like they need to at the very least go on the Indy pass.

I wonder if Ragged has seen pass sales increase because of the connection to Jay Peak? As to the latter, they seem to be humming right along.

 

[snoseek]

I wonder if Ragged has seen pass sales increase because of the connection to Jay Peak? As to the latter, they seem to be humming right along.

I can tell you they sold one because of it

 

[2planks2coasts]

Day tickets are a great value there still for sure. Season Passes? Meh. Still $400. Ragged is $429 and you get two high speed chairs.

I guess I just have a hard time understanding your position that they can be successful with a 6000' FG chair as the primary lift. There's literally only one other example of this left in New England with Smuggs. They can get away with it because that chair services arguably the best expert terrain in the East. People still complain about it all the time though. Even Magic the Black chair is 5200, but again it services excellent expert terrain. Tenney has some cool trails, but they're very low angle, they get far less snow than even Magic and are lower in elevation, so much less reliable on natural snow.

Maybe you're right, but it would appear that every other area in the market thinks differently.

MRG?? and a more appropriate comparison is Platty. You're assuming that success comes by competing with "every other area in the market." It doesn't. There is plenty of market out there for folks who want something bigger and more interesting than Nashoba, Campton Mountain, The Kanc recreation area and other town bumps, but that aren't interested in the crowds and more importantly, prices of Loon, WV, or Cannon. Even Ragged's walk up weekend tix are north of $100. Tenney can capture more than enough of that market to be profitable by improving snowmaking (though the product this year was really nice most of the season), having a lively bar and keeping things cheap enough that a family or group of friends can spontaneously decide to go skiing on a weekend day. This market segment is tolerant of the slow lift provided those other criteria are met. Looking outside the NE, think Mt Hood Skibowl. Directly competing with Mt Hood Meadows and Timberline, their fleet of old & slow center pole riblets are a smidge closer to the city and a whole lot cheaper. That's their thing and it's a successful thing.

Then there's a smaller, but certainly not nonexistent segment of the market that prefers slow chairs. They allow one to rest the legs, to have a conversation, perhaps enjoy a snack or beverage.

 

[deadheadskier]

Well, I hope you're right. You still haven't presented a regional comparison that's equivalent and successful.

MRG, Smuggs, MRG =/= Tenney

I'd be more supportive of your theory if that chair was 4000 feet, but not 6000. If it is to remain a FG, my only hope is they put in a mid station. The best terrain off the Hornet is the lower half. I'd rather hop off after 8 minutes to ski something decent than stay on for 15 to ski from the top.

 

[cdskier]

I don't understand the Platty comparison. Platty's longest lift is less than half the length of Tenney's. And even at MRG the single is over 10% shorter than Tenney's Hornet (and again there's a difference in terrain as well).

 

[2planks2coasts]

I don't understand the Platty comparison. Platty's longest lift is less than half the length of Tenney's. And even at MRG the single is over 10% shorter than Tenney's Hornet (and again there's a difference in terrain as well).

The point is they do just fine competing with the detachable lifts and even gondola at similar sized resorts nearby. Plenty of resorts, including MRG also do fine without detachables. Some places balance the slow lifts with terrain, some with good snow, cheap prices, apres or accessibility.

Ultimately it doesn't matter. Tenney has indicated they want to put in a HSQ (or gondola!). This passholder thinks that money is better invested elsewhere. They didn't ask though.

 

[Newpylong]

Again, one of the reasons they do fine is because their own lifts are tolerable and not over a mile long...

They are investing elsewhere first. My guess is once the bills come in for all of this snowmaking work it's going to be a while before a much bigger check is written.

 

[cdskier]

Yea...those are still apples and oranges comparisons. Platty and MRG also have built up a loyal following over many years and have unique qualities in terms of terrain (and in the case of Platty also a way to escape the crowds at other Catskill areas). Would Platty be as successful if their lift was twice as long? I'm not so sure about that. People can tolerate slow lifts...to a point. There is a limit on how long the average person is willing to sit on a lift. And even going from 10 minutes to 15 minutes makes a big difference.

 

[drjeff]

Ultimately what may come into play, is what will it take to get some of the cars that keep driving past Tenney on 93 on their way to say Waterville, Loon or Cannon or even keep driving past the exit for Ragged, and check out Tenney?

If you consider those 4 other areas, Tenney is the only one without a HS lift, and to the masses, who make up the bulk of most ski areas revenue every year, having a HS lift may very well become enough to get some more of those cars traveling on 93 to get off in Plymouth and give the mountain a try, and maybe even become repeat/regular customers, especially if they get their snowmaking system upgraded enough to cover a reasonable amount of their cool terrain dependably. Being able to advertise "come check out our new high speed lift" definitely gets the attention of a fair percentage of the masses

 

[deadheadskier]

Agreed. HS lift and getting on Indy. Both would bring in first timers or encourage other to come back again.

I haven't been back in 15 years despite having a pass that season and enjoying the terrain and vibe. The reason is the Hornet. I felt I spent way too much time on the lift vs actual skiing. I'll do long slow rides for a Magic, MRG, Smuggs because the terrain is worth it. I didn't feel Tenney's was worth it.