The Desovichs' Weinbrechts,

[Greg]

It's #1 on my list of places to hit, I'll be there May 3rd. I'm open to being totally off in my assessment of this. But going off of what I hear, they're certainly the preferred place in the east for bumps, but not the standout #1 for bumps, where ALL the big time bump skiers go.

cool that you'll hit in on closing day (most likely) but that isnt gonna give you a feel for the way it really is. BMM can extoll on the virtues of Mt. Ellen, but until you've skied castlerock in all its glory, you wont get a total feel for the the sheer amount of bump runs sugarbush has. Also the mall, paradise, ripcord, spillsville, twist, lower birdland, etc.

they just have an intense array of choices not seen at many areas. MRG being one exception.

I really need to hit Mount Ellen someday when it's in its prime. I just don't care for the trail layout over there for some reason. Some people claim LP has runout, but man Ellen is runout city from below the base of the NRX. Still those pics BMM posted of Exterm, Cliff, etc. looked awesome.

I still prefer Lincoln Peak. Mall and Twist are usually great bump runs with a more moderate pitch. Stein's is very Outer Limits-like with big sweeping bumps if that's your thing. But the natural trails are where it's at - Spills, Paradise, Castlerock. Even Morning Star over on Lynx and sometimes Sunrise sets up with nice bumps. Considering MRG is right down the road and you have without question the most bump opps in the Northeast. End to end it's all packed into 8 linear miles.

mondeo - we really need to get you and powhunter pulled away from Killington and up to the MRV mid-season. I know being an hour further, there's an overnight commitment required, but I think you stay over when you hit Killington a lot. In fact, you should hit Sugarbush now. Mall and Twist opened back up and it looks like little is being groomed up there. Considering the $29 lift ticket with your Sundown pass, you really have no excuse. Anyway, glad to hear you're hitting it on 5/3. Hopefully, it'll still be good. The bumps on Ripcord last April when I went with 180 and family were the best bumps I've skied in the past year until Gunny set up the last few weeks of March.



Wish I got up there more this year. Only hit Sugarbush once and never made it to MRG this year. It was tough to pull away from Sundown last month, especially since the lack of powder in Vermont. I still think I have a Sugarbush outing in me though.

 

[2knees]

The difference between bump skiing in the 1980's and bump skiing today is that in the 1980's, people just camped out on Outer Limits and taught each other. I was there. It was fun to watch. Today, mogul skiing is a very structured discipline just like ski racing has been forever. The quality of bump skiing today at Killington is far better than back then but the best kids are in the Mountain School and are usually invisible on weekends since they're traveling to events elsewhere. Anybody in the Killington programs who is any good isn't allowed to compete in the BMMC and their training area is no longer Outer Limits in full view of everybody. Instead, the best bumpers train on a roped off slope just like the racers.

you make some great points here. The whole thing has been structured and organized to the point that you just dont see that kind of scene on O.L. you described.

 

[jack97]

you make some great points here. The whole thing has been structured and organized to the point that you just dont see that kind of scene on O.L. you described.

Geoff made some excellent point. Mogul skiing is very structure today, much like the way the race programs are structure. Thus your 're not going to see a rag tag group of skiers ripping it down a line.

Now having said this, I heard mogul techniques is too structure. Back in the days, the styles for going the line was more diverse.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Geoff made some excellent point. Mogul skiing is very structure today, much like the way the race programs are structure. Thus your 're not going to see a rag tag group of skiers ripping it down a line.

Now having said this, I heard mogul techniques is too structure. Back in the days, the styles for going the line was more diverse.

are the Killington mogul programs just for kids?

I had no idea mogul technique has evolved so much..

 

[BushMogulMaster]

I had no idea mogul technique has evolved so much..

Ahhhhh, yep. Compare for yourself:

Desovich vs. Dale Begg-Smith


Steve Desovich, 1987:




Dale Begg-Smith, 2006:

 

[SkiDork]

I'm liking Bilodeau for Vancouver. That kid rox

 

[Greg]

Way more fun to watch. There's almost a hint of johnnypoachness controlled chaos to his skiing. :lol:

BTW, powhunter just called. He said the bumps up there are, well, kinda lacking.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

wow back in the day they were all over the place..I guess shorter skis make a big difference..

 

[2knees]

BTW, powhunter just called. He said the bumps up there are, well, kinda lacking.

as in no bumps anywhere???

 

[bigbog]

.......

.....The problem is, the money isn't in it for them. Hopefully bump skiing will come full circle again sometime. With their altitude, decent snowfall, terrain, and location, they're a natural candidate for being a leader on the bump skiing scene. Just need the bump skiing scene to come back.
And bring back the party for BMMC. That's key.

...Also think that the emphasis towards sidecut (from Europe) and Miller, Stump..and others focusing in on steep and deep of the West and BC had some influence as to a change of terrain from the seeded bump fields....add less congestion in living away from the crowd...while still getting great snow...and you have a more distributed skiing crowd with skicat & heli access to anywhere. Think with younger crowd...tied to parents = not as centralized, ** but who knows...now with a ton of more work near the urban areas of the NE...will be interesting to see if a few more bump ski show up on the shelves..???
..just $.01 guess..

 

[jack97]

hot dogging 2 freestyle vid

here's an interesting vid, not sure of the accuracy of the history but its interesting footage of skiing back in the days.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

for the really old guys here...was mogul skiing popular before the 1970s??? I figure most runs were mogul runs with the lack of grooming..the early hot doggers were so freaking out of control..lol

 

[Greg]

as in no bumps anywhere???

Not exactly that. I think he said there was a nice course on Highline (or was it Conclusion?). Anyway, that was officially closed to the public. Superstar had some lines, but were still frozen. I think he said Escapade was closed (frozen). Also Heavenly Trav was closed so he couldn't check out stuff on that side. So there's stuff, but not a great day to hit it, and he sounded a little disappointed.

 

[2knees]

Not exactly that. I think he said there was a nice course on Highline (or was it Conclusion?). Anyway, that was officially closed to the public. Superstar had some lines, but were still frozen. I think he said Escapade was closed (frozen). Also Heavenly Trav was closed so he couldn't check out stuff on that side. So there's stuff, but not a great day to hit it, and he sounded a little disappointed.

yeah, i called him and got the scoop.

here's the one thing i simply do not understand. He said both downdraft and cascade had been groomed. Now i understand that today they probably would have roped off downdraft had it been ungroomed, but they basically provide the same thing. why on earth cant they just leave one (downdraft) alone and wait for a warmer day to open it. The weather this week looks like its gonna be beautiful and warmer by the day. Whats the harm in leaving it alone???? There isnt enough traffic midweek to bump it back up by friday. thinking selfishly here, cause i wont be there on the weekend. Steve said the place was a ghost town. i couldve guessed that. Superstar was groomed also, except for the lower half of skiers left. its all quite frustrating, really.

 

[Highway Star]

The difference between bump skiing in the 1980's and bump skiing today is that in the 1980's, people just camped out on Outer Limits and taught each other. I was there. It was fun to watch. Today, mogul skiing is a very structured discipline just like ski racing has been forever. The quality of bump skiing today at Killington is far better than back then but the best kids are in the Mountain School and are usually invisible on weekends since they're traveling to events elsewhere. Anybody in the Killington programs who is any good isn't allowed to compete in the BMMC and their training area is no longer Outer Limits in full view of everybody. Instead, the best bumpers train on a roped off slope just like the racers.

With snowboards, twin tip park rats, and aging boomers, moguls don't sell an awful lot of day tickets. It's different times and Killington has done the obvious thing. The Stash for the park rats. 50% grooming on OL for the majority of their customer base. Short shaped skis make for really crappy moguls. Snowboards create wall bumps. On most of the mountain, things would get pretty unskiable if it weren't knocked flat periodically. The best bump course used by the bumpers in the structured programs has a rope across it so the hacks (like me) don't destroy it. If you want better quality natural bumps, you need to be at a hill where people aren't on short shaped skis and snowboards. Hint: It's an hour north of Killington and it has a single chair.

And this is why mogul skiing is laaaaaaame these days. Who wants to ski a buffed out, symmetric seeded course, with landings that are groomed flat for 40 ft after the jump?

Allowing inverts is the only thing interesting to happen in the last 10 years.

 

[madriverjack]

The Big K is dead. MRG and The Bush is where it's at bumps that you don't have to go and search for them they're right in your face. I think The Bush should take over the bmmc. Maybe then Killington will open there eyes. The skiing in the woods is also damn good at The Bush and MRG. How can Killington not get it Sundown sure as hell does? Great job Sundown I'll go there when it's open rather then Killington. The party is over until different management or owners take over. Really they don't even want to take the lifetime passes people bought. It's not even just about the moguls IT IS ABOUT EVERYTHING!!

 

[skiadikt]

yeah, i called him and got the scoop.

here's the one thing i simply do not understand. He said both downdraft and cascade had been groomed. Now i understand that today they probably would have roped off downdraft had it been ungroomed, but they basically provide the same thing. why on earth cant they just leave one (downdraft) alone and wait for a warmer day to open it. The weather this week looks like its gonna be beautiful and warmer by the day. Whats the harm in leaving it alone???? There isnt enough traffic midweek to bump it back up by friday. thinking selfishly here, cause i wont be there on the weekend. Steve said the place was a ghost town. i couldve guessed that. Superstar was groomed also, except for the lower half of skiers left. its all quite frustrating, really.

that's kinda been the story this season. groom, groom, groom ... they should definitely leave downdraft ungroomed. if it's frozen leave the rope up. it's spring it'll eventually soften. imho at this point runs like cascade & supe are gonna develop crappo bumps. both are essentially chopped granular on top of a very icey base. supe does have bumps skiers left but that's a very manly line. runs like north star & west glade have been overgroomed and the bumps disappointing. best bumps on open terrain this weekend were on conclusion. beautiful lines and snow softened nicely. highline should be good. escapade which has been groomed a few times this year now has good bumps. snowden trees also skied nicely if you like bumped tree runs. to be honest the best bumps were on closed terrain. for us best runs were ol and upper needles/stitch/vertigo combo.

 

[2knees]

And this is why mogul skiing is laaaaaaame these days.

 

[o3jeff]

What did you piss him off and he picture mailed you the finger:lol:

 

[drjeff]

And this is why mogul skiing is laaaaaaame these days. Who wants to ski a buffed out, symmetric seeded course, with landings that are groomed flat for 40 ft after the jump?

Allowing inverts is the only thing interesting to happen in the last 10 years.

I gotta somewhat agree with Highwaystar on this one. Don't get me wrong, the competitive mogul scene is littered with great skiers, but the courses have become so homogenized that week after week, its basically the same course, the same rythm, the same timing and as a result the same run that a competitor can make.

Many a training session/comp mogul run for the mogul kids these days really resembles the racer skids slalom run in a sense. Controlled turns around a set point. I can somewhat understand how for a dual mogul comp that some continuity between the courses should be there, but that begs the question if a singles rather than duals should be the norm and if courses shouldn't be "real" rather than engineered???