The Most Important Resort Improvement for the Summer of 2010

[Tin Woodsman]

All grooming crews are not equal. It's art as much as science. Not everyone is cut out for the gig, and not all resorts "get it."

Without getting into any specifics re: SB, which you probably can't talk about in a public forum, what facets go into a good grooming crew and what constitutes "getting it" from a mgmt perspective? As an educational experience, it could be helpful to understand the differences.

While everyone whines about Sugarbush not investing in mountain ops,

Really just one guy, and he was only trolling, so that doesn't even count.

let's not forget that at least two main snowmaking pipelines are being replaced this year (one at LP, one at ME) [see http://forums.skimrv.com/about2398.html]. That will certainly make a difference. I'm not as familiar with the system at LP as I am at ME, so I can't speak so much for the difference there. But I can tell you that at ME, the difference will be noticeable in the moments we need it most. It doesn't necessarily mean that more snow will be made, but it means that it can be made where and when it's needed. Last year was a challenge, but I think it turned out pretty darn good nonetheless.

Can this be interpreted to mean that the old pipe was so sensitive/delicate that mtn ops arms were tied under many circumstances during preferred snowmaking windows?

FWIW, I don't understand why they'd get the same diameter pipe, if only to leave the door open for great capacity in the next 25 years w/o having to invest anew. Perhaps going to a greater diameter on the pipe would require new equipment connected to that pipe (e.g. fittings, pumps, what have you)?

 

[thetrailboss]

Can this be interpreted to mean that the old pipe was so sensitive/delicate that mtn ops arms were tied under many circumstances during preferred snowmaking windows?

IIRC last season they lost a lot of time at LP due to the blow outs and had to run the system at less pressure because of the breaking lines. As for Mount Ellen, same thing. They lost a lot of time and were not able to refill the pond at Inverness as fast.

 

[BushMogulMaster]

Good to hear that the line from Van Loon Pumphouse to the base will see some TLC. It will be good to see the system will be back up to normal...now we need the snow to go with it and colder temps!

The skiing at ME was good, but the runs that usually have very deep bases from snowmaking (FIS and Exterminator for example) just did not have the same amount of snow.

Then again, we can talk about that "terrible" trail known as Cliffs.

We haven't made snow on Exterminator in a couple of seasons. It skis much better natural, hands down.

Cliffs was also superior with all natural snow. With a shorter season at Ellen, I'm happier to see snow quality over depth. Obviously, in a really bad snow year, snowmaking is the only real solution. But whenever possible, those trails are a world better with natural snow.

 

[thetrailboss]

I guess I was surprised that there was no SM on Exterminator because in the past they would put a layer down, ala FIS, and let it go. Hell, I recall them winching it during the 2002-2003 season on a couple occasions. Since ME is not open very long, I understand why there is not as much SM on it.

Has there been ANY snowmaking or race training on Lower Brambles? It is a shame that they widened it only to not use it for racing.

 

[BushMogulMaster]

I guess I was surprised that there was no SM on Exterminator because in the past they would put a layer down, ala FIS, and let it go. Hell, I recall them winching it during the 2002-2003 season on a couple occasions. Since ME is not open very long, I understand why there is not as much SM on it.

The decision not to make snow on Exterm isn't just about saving money, etc. It's about skiing quality. The trail is significantly better without snowmaking. And grooming it may be the worst thing we could do to that particular trail. I have personally heard great reviews from many people on the improvement since we haven't been making snow or grooming it. Even folks that don't like moguls have to admit that the snow quality is much better. No matter how well you make snow, it will always be inferior to natural snow (albeit more durable).

Has there been ANY snowmaking or race training on Lower Brambles? It is a shame that they widened it only to not use it for racing.

This has been a discussion point. We'll see what this season brings.


But we've hijacked your thread enough. Let's move back to discussion of important resort improvements...

 

[BushMogulMaster]

Without getting into any specifics re: SB, which you probably can't talk about in a public forum, what facets go into a good grooming crew and what constitutes "getting it" from a mgmt perspective? As an educational experience, it could be helpful to understand the differences.

It can't be boiled down to a paragraph on a forum. If it was that simple, there would be no need for a departmental manager to run the operation!

It's a very complex thing, really. From a management perspective, you have to have someone who not only can manage people, but who also understands snow science, and how grooming/snowmaking affect the snow crystals. The grooming manager has to be in tune with the weather patterns, the up-to-the-minute snow conditions, etc. He has to know exactly what to groom and when, and it's certainly not arbitrary... lots and lots of factors can impact what, how, when, and why something is added to, or removed from the grooming list.

With regard to what makes a good grooming crew, it takes a variety of strengths that combine to make a great chemistry. One of the most important pieces to this puzzle is that some groomers really have to be skiers as well. There are (more than you think, probably) ski areas where none of the groomers ski. In order to understand how the daily work relates to the skiing experience, some of the operators have to have lots of first-hand experience. Beyond that, it's important to be careful who you hire as operators. Everyone wants to run cats. It's like the ultimate ski bum gig. But it's also a dangerous, and supremely important job. What we do doesn't only effect the skiing quality, but it is also highly aesthetic. If someone drives up to the mountain and sees wavy, ugly corduroy, or lots of track marks, or deep coffins, or other operator errors, that potential customer will form his initial opinion based on what he sees. On the other hand, good looking corduroy doesn't automatically equal good skiing, and vice versa. So you need to hire operators who are capable, intelligent, and willing to learn, and who actually care about the product they are making.

And back to management, it really makes a huge difference when the managers really cares about the product, and the guys making the product. As night crew workers, it's easy to be forgotten. If the manager takes care of his operators, and really pays attention to their input, all is well. If the operators are ignored and forgotten, then they'll quickly (and intentionally) forget how to make straight lines and clean up mistakes, and the product will suffer, and employee morale will drop quite quickly. But that's really true of nearly any department in any business, I just wanted to relate it to grooming.


Anyways, like I said, it's a big topic with lots of interesting facets. The above was just a little stream-of-consciousness peek at what goes on. Snow science can be complex, and relating it to the effects of snowmaking and grooming is not always easy.

Can this be interpreted to mean that the old pipe was so sensitive/delicate that mtn ops arms were tied under many circumstances during preferred snowmaking windows?

It can be interpreted to mean that charging the system to, and running at, full pressure/volume with aging, weak pipelines = difficult snowmaking. I'm intentionally not alluding to any specifics here, just that it makes things more difficult. Many ski areas deal with this every season. Fortunately, Win is making the commitment to take care of it now, instead of just putting a band-aid on it.

 

[thetrailboss]

I hear you on Exterminator. It did ski well...albeit thin at times...

Any new groomers for either side of SB this season? Great to see that the winchcat was back in action for ME.

And moi highjacking my own thread?

 

[BushMogulMaster]

I hear you on Exterminator. It did ski well...albeit thin at times...

Any new groomers for either side of SB this season? Great to see that the winchcat was back in action for ME.

And moi highjacking my own thread?

I think there's one new machine in the works. Regarding the winch at Ellen, yeah... the machine itself is fine now. One big improvement for next season (at least on the ops side) is that they'll be greatly improving our ability to put on/take off the winch (it takes a big gantry, flat and properly aligned). That will give us the ability to use that machine (BR-350) in the park, and as a freegroomer without the extra baggage. The winch adds a LOT of weight, and thus a lot more load and wear on the cat. By being able to remove it when we're not winching, and put it on when we ARE winching, we'll be much more efficient and effective, and hopefully extend life the of the solid frame (those BRs are renowned for frame cracks...).