The Most Important Resort Improvement for the Summer of 2010

[riverc0il]

Definitely almost June! If they could get Xanedu open, that would be the best resort improvement AND it might help the summer dole drums a little bit. Or... perhaps not.

 

[deadheadskier]

As a passholder there last season and planned pass holder for next season, this is defiitely what I'm most interested in personally as well. I emailed Bob to see if any information will be forthcoming regarding on mountain improvements. I did meet many folks on the hill last year who didn't mind that 12 minute ride and weren't for a HSQ. I would not be one of them. I don't mind long slow lifts if they access 1500 vert of decent pitch. Spear is more like 800 with 300 of run out. Fun skiing, but a long ride for such short terrain.

Bob responded:

We tried hard to get lift on schedule for this summer but in this economy, it was impossible to finance - so it will have to wait for another year. Many small improvements will be noticable, however - From additional glading to bag storage room, to improvements to snowmaking.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

Wow, this has turned into an entertaining thread. :thumbs up: When I read thru the thread, for a second there I thought I was reading Tin defending the Bush. Must have been just a passing notion. :lol:

I think most know that the Bush will never have 100% snowmaking coverage cause of this little place called Castlerock. I've been there and experienced all the bad thaw/rain/freeze events and the feedback I hear is that the Bush does a great job recovering. Personally, I'm always amazed. What the Bush lacks in snowmaking is more than made up with an amazing grooming crew. Under normal conditions they till/push/carve cord on 60 trails every night. If snow surface is important to you than the grooming crews at all ski hills should be your idols. :wink: Just my personal opinion, everyone has a right to one.

New interesting developement that might have a positive effect on the snowmaking is a company has proposed a wind farm on the summit ridge of the Northfield Range along the east of the MRV. It's a longshot IMHO but wind power is starting to make some in roads in Vermont so who knows. It will take at least 2/3 years before they can build if it passes thru all the headwinds this project is sure to feel and that's a big if.

http://www.valleyreporter.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3207&Itemid=38

 

[riverc0il]

New interesting developement that might have a positive effect on the snowmaking is a company has proposed a wind farm on the summit ridge of the Northfield Range along the east of the MRV. It's a longshot IMHO but wind power is starting to make some in roads in Vermont so who knows. It will take at least 2/3 years before they can build if it passes thru all the headwinds this project is sure to feel and that's a big if.

Would be interested to hear Bush's stance on that!

I would grab some popcorn for this one. The MRV kinda has some of that hippie crunchy granola flavor to it but it also has that money flavor to it as well and people love their views. Will be interesting to see which side winds out on that issue. They got them off the Mass coast though, so I guess anything can happen.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

Your conveniently missing this one - which basically says...He hasn't been around so his opinion is suspect.. Which kinda sets the tenor of the conversation.

Wait a sec - that's a perfectly legitimate comment. Is it not likely that you are less familiar with a place when you move across the country? Even if you accept that this comment somehow sets the tone, there's no reasonable interpretation of that comment that constitutes having "jumped all over him". He made a definitive statement. He was questioned on it. It was ultimately revealed that we wasn't quite as up to speed on the facts as he thought and now he's playing the victim card. I don't see how it's any more complicated than that.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

Would be interested to hear Bush's stance on that!

I would grab some popcorn for this one. The MRV kinda has some of that hippie crunchy granola flavor to it but it also has that money flavor to it as well and people love their views. Will be interesting to see which side winds out on that issue. They got them off the Mass coast though, so I guess anything can happen.

Not sure they'd ever say it in public, but depending on the owner of those turbines, I bet they'd be very interested. They are currently locked into a monolopy provider in Green Mountain Power. Win has posted on SkiMRV that they are frequently (almost every day) cut off from their negotiated rate on the best snowmaking days (i.e. the coldest days), so they are forced to "buy through" and pay a much higher rate to continue snowmaking. Given the amount of power snowmaking consumes, this has to be an enormous expense. If those turbines could somehow shake up this dynamic such that it helped to reduce that penalty, it would be a good thing for fans of more snowmaking at SB.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

Talk about moving the goalposts, where did I say the only thing theyve invested is in real estate? I just said they need to stop investing in real estate. Break out the quotes if need be

To please AdironRider I want the best damn on snow experience before anything else gets a dime spent on it. Get it? You dont like it, so resort to picking apart ever single thing I have to say about it. Bullshit. All Sugarbush has done has spent money on phase 1 (massive real estate development) and now phase 2, which is amenities for said real estate development, which in my mind is just a direct extension of real estate. This is my opinion, and I can say whatever I want. Deal with it. Ill keep on keeping on, and Im sure it will keep on pissing you off. Its kinda fun really. Ive had a good day, pissed off threecy and you. Who's next, time will tell. I call it like I want.

Quotes = broken out.

You suck at the Internet.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

Wow, this has turned into an entertaining thread. :thumbs up: When I read thru the thread, for a second there I thought I was reading Tin defending the Bush. Must have been just a passing notion. :lol:

I think most know that the Bush will never have 100% snowmaking coverage cause of this little place called Castlerock. I've been there and experienced all the bad thaw/rain/freeze events and the feedback I hear is that the Bush does a great job recovering. Personally, I'm always amazed. What the Bush lacks in snowmaking is more than made up with an amazing grooming crew. Under normal conditions they till/push/carve cord on 60 trails every night. If snow surface is important to you than the grooming crews at all ski hills should be your idols. :wink: Just my personal opinion, everyone has a right to one.

Meh. There's no reason to believe that SB has a uniquely awesome groomer crew. They work hard as dogs at every mountain. All the mountain ops guys do.

Thankfully, they will retain a great mix of manmade and natural trails. You and I both know they could do better on the former and I think it's safe to assume that will be an area of renewed focus once the base area construction settles down in a year or two.

If you really love a place, you have to be honest about its strengths and faults.

 

[speden]

Bob responded:

We tried hard to get lift on schedule for this summer but in this economy, it was impossible to finance - so it will have to wait for another year. Many small improvements will be noticable, however - From additional glading to bag storage room, to improvements to snowmaking.

Well that's a bummer, but understandable.

Hopefully Ragged will put whatever funds they have towards modernizing their snow making guns and improving their water supply. It would be nice if they'd do some work on Showboat so that they could get it open sooner.

Not sure what they need a bag storage room for. Seemed like the lodge has quite a few storage shelves already.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

Personally, I'm always amazed. What the Bush lacks in snowmaking is more than made up with an amazing grooming crew. Under normal conditions they till/push/carve cord on 60 trails every night. If snow surface is important to you than the grooming crews at all ski hills should be your idols. Just my personal opinion, everyone has a right to one.

Meh. There's no reason to believe that SB has a uniquely awesome groomer crew. They work hard as dogs at every mountain. All the mountain ops guys do.

It's not nice to put words in I didn't say to make your point. Where did I say uniquely? I even gave a shout out to all grooming crews cause I know they all work hard for their money.

.

 

[deadheadskier]

Well that's a bummer, but understandable.

Hopefully Ragged will put whatever funds they have towards modernizing their snow making guns and improving their water supply. It would be nice if they'd do some work on Showboat so that they could get it open sooner.

Not sure what they need a bag storage room for. Seemed like the lodge has quite a few storage shelves already.

Aggreed on all points except the bags. I definitely would remove all the shelves and have a free storage room and mandate its use. On busy days, especially race days, kids would tend to 'claim tables' with their stuff and just leave it on the tables all day. Made for a downright mess at times. This problem will only get worse as the mountain becomes more popular.

The bones of that lodge are actually pretty nice. If they got rid of the lockers and updated the furniture it would be much more attractive and enable them to attract a higher end wedding clientele in the off season. Sprucing it up to it's full potential would probably also help in attracting a higher end clientele for their desired real estate development as well.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

It's not nice to put words in I didn't say to make your point. Where did I say uniquely? I even gave a shout out to all grooming crews cause I know they all work hard for their money.

.

They do. But then why bring up the SB groomer crew when you are posting about snowmaking? The obvious implication is that we should gloss over any shortcomings with the snowmaking system b/c it's compensated for by the grooming. In fact, it wasn't an implication so much as a statement. You said:

What the Bush lacks in snowmaking is more than made up with an amazing grooming crew.

If all grooming crews are equal, then what is the possible rationale for this comment? Sure - you did not use the exact words "uniquely awesome", but the point you were making was clear enough. You think that SB's shortcomings in snowmaking are compensated for by having an amazing grooming crew. I'm sure the employees of every mountain believe that about their colleagues despite the fact that there is zero objective evidence to support your claim. No need to be disingenuous about it.

 

[Mapnut]

Goodness me, what a cranky forum!

 

[catskillman]

I can't wait to try this out!!!

Have you noticed that the pole in the front right hand corner is tilted?? !!!

Very obvious when you are standing in front of it...

 

[mikestaple]

Aggreed on all points except the bags. I definitely would remove all the shelves and have a free storage room and mandate its use. On busy days, especially race days, kids would tend to 'claim tables' with their stuff and just leave it on the tables all day. Made for a downright mess at times. This problem will only get worse as the mountain becomes more popular.

The bones of that lodge are actually pretty nice. If they got rid of the lockers and updated the furniture it would be much more attractive and enable them to attract a higher end wedding clientele in the off season. Sprucing it up to it's full potential would probably also help in attracting a higher end clientele for their desired real estate development as well.

I love the lodge - I just make it a point to get there at the very opening to grab the shelf space and yes my kids do hog a table. Which is a royal pain to everyone else. The fireplace is so good, if they could do something to move beyond the lunch room chairs etc it would be fantastic. I would definitely use a free storage room (or even a $5 dollar all day basket). Just get those snow guns more mobile and get Exhibition open sooner and my day trip destination is set.

 

[dmc]

Have you noticed that the pole in the front right hand corner is tilted?? !!!

Very obvious when you are standing in front of it...

I really haven't paid much attention to it.. But I guess it does look crooked...

 

[win]

I still think Sugarbush needs to stop real estate development and start focusing on the on mountain experience, they are now at the back of the pack in terms of major resorts in VT, and are only falling further behind.

That being said, Gore's new development could potentially have the largest impact of all, I think they still need a lift to downtown North Creek to reach the top. That and way more snowmaking capacity.

WTF are you talking about. You must either have not been here or don't know what you are talking about!

 

[win]

I'd be interested in hearing input from win as to Sugarbush's skier visits over his ownership period. Numbers mean more than opinions.

One of the biggest complaints at Killington is their lack of adequate skier services facilities for lessons, rentals, etc. They blow a ton of snow.

Smuggs has horid snowmaking, yet the place is mobbed. Why? Excellent skier service facilities and slopeside lodging. That example alone would show what families care about.

If we are going forward with this summer's improvements, it is because we are pleased with our results. That's the bottom line! Our guests are voting!

 

[BushMogulMaster]

If all grooming crews are equal, then what is the possible rationale for this comment?

All grooming crews are not equal. It's art as much as science. Not everyone is cut out for the gig, and not all resorts "get it."




While everyone whines about Sugarbush not investing in mountain ops, let's not forget that at least two main snowmaking pipelines are being replaced this year (one at LP, one at ME) [see http://forums.skimrv.com/about2398.html]. That will certainly make a difference. I'm not as familiar with the system at LP as I am at ME, so I can't speak so much for the difference there. But I can tell you that at ME, the difference will be noticeable in the moments we need it most. It doesn't necessarily mean that more snow will be made, but it means that it can be made where and when it's needed. Last year was a challenge, but I think it turned out pretty darn good nonetheless.

 

[thetrailboss]

While everyone whines about Sugarbush not investing in mountain ops, let's not forget that at least two main snowmaking pipelines are being replaced this year (one at LP, one at ME) [see http://forums.skimrv.com/about2398.html]. That will certainly make a difference. I'm not as familiar with the system at LP as I am at ME, so I can't speak so much for the difference there. But I can tell you that at ME, the difference will be noticeable in the moments we need it most. It doesn't necessarily mean that more snow will be made, but it means that it can be made where and when it's needed. Last year was a challenge, but I think it turned out pretty darn good nonetheless.

Good to hear that the line from Van Loon Pumphouse to the base will see some TLC. It will be good to see the system will be back up to normal...now we need the snow to go with it and colder temps!

The skiing at ME was good, but the runs that usually have very deep bases from snowmaking (FIS and Exterminator for example) just did not have the same amount of snow.

Then again, we can talk about that "terrible" trail known as Cliffs.