The NEW Magic Mountain

[slatham]

Eclipse Corner!

 

[MidnightJester]

Incredible way to wrap things up. Great year i'd say. Slow start strong finish. What ever happened to MidnightJester? Curious about his 1st Magic experience.

Some of us just couldn't let go & there was something happening in the sky yesterday.

Thank you for everyone's advice, tips and little ideas to enjoy Magic. I am alive but tired. Friday(only Magic day) till Monday night till (Tuesday morning(7am) 12 hrs OMG traffic home) pulled over twice to nap for 3 hours out of the 12

So Magic was Magical for a 1st time experience. Only black lift was running Friday but it was enough to get me into Magic. No years of lift issues and just about everything was open or ridable with 20"+ of medium density powder on top of what was there. Wish they had the Red lift open so I would of done a little more on that side at the end. Was very tired as I drove up with no sleep so left 3ish and could of done a few more runs but was looking at 4 days of riding all around coming up (Magic, Killington, Stratton, Jay Peak) @ riding day 23 and trying to find another couple of days I hope : )

Got 14 runs in and found a Wardrobe closet in the Wardrobe : ) or a Place to do something : ) The Voodoo Glade(skiers right of Red lift) was a great run. Would of liked to of done another run in there. Is that a new glade Added by Magic(edit. added in 2017) or has it been there before they re-purchased the mountain?? It isn't even listed as a trail on a map tracking app FATMAP but it is on Magic's handed out map and online pdf map


Interesting edit found a website that has back copies on many if not most trail maps by year in order. Nice : )

Skimap.org

Skimap.org has the most ski resort trail maps on the internet.

skimap.org

Vermont

721 maps from ski areas in Vermont at Skimap.org

skimap.org

Magic Mountain

24 ski trail maps for Magic Mountain at Skimap.org

skimap.org

2016 MAP

2017 MAP added (White Tiger, Warlock & Voodoo) Glades to Red lift and East side.

 

[RustyGroomer]

Good stuff Jester. Glad you enjoyed.

Lower Magician Thursday….

 

[slatham]

Many of the glades on the map were there prior, just like there are many glades not identified, and hopefully will remain so. There’s a bit of a balance between the desires of the volunteers who each fall spend 3 days (or more) clearing glades, and management who wants to add more glades to the map. No new glades for several years have been added to the map.

I will also bet that ski patrol doesn’t want too many added as daily “sweeps” would get a little out of hand.

 

[rtjcbrown]

What is the latest story with the two old hotels on the left side, just before the base lodge?

One was Dostal's, and I forget what the other one was.

 

[ne_skier]

I believe the other building right next to the Dostal's main building was just an annex and part of the hotel. Pretty sure they stopped operating as a public hotel in the 2000s, afterward they became employee housing for Stratton and the buildings have been abandoned for at least a decade. My theory for why nothing's happened with the place is because an asbestos abatement would make anything other than letting it sit be cost-prohibitive. Magic stepping up their operations game however could change that.

 

[slatham]

Unless he means The Blue Gentian further down the access road by the ponds.

 

[ne_skier]

Oh, duh.

 

[skithetrees]

I believe the other building right next to the Dostal's main building was just an annex and part of the hotel. Pretty sure they stopped operating as a public hotel in the 2000s, afterward they became employee housing for Stratton and the buildings have been abandoned for at least a decade. My theory for why nothing's happened with the place is because an asbestos abatement would make anything other than letting it sit be cost-prohibitive. Magic stepping up their operations game however could change that.

Blue gentian is still going strong. Dostals, at this point, is uninhabitable. I imagine it would be cheaper to tear it down than refurbish. Last I heard, it is owned by the same person as timberside. I imagine once Magic has a good season or two something will come of it now that the black lift is in. That said, it might be hard to justify building lodging if the mountain continues to operate on a Thursday-Sunday schedule.

 

[letitsnow1]

I think there was a for sale sign at dostals a few years ago

 

[IceEidolon]

am wondering what the download capacity of the black lift is? this would be supplied in the design package.

iirc, most lifts can easily be qualified for 10% { every 10th chair fully loaded downhill } because it takes about 17% to drive an empty lift. with only a 10% load, there would be no chance of forward overhauling. that would be passengers on the downhill side accelerating out of control, and you don't want that. if the lift is designed for even a small download capacity, it would need to be approved by the design engineer and proven by dynamic testing. you'd need to prove the lift can adequately start, control and stop this lower capacity in both directions using the different drive modes. with a regen drive, this is no problem under electric drive on both uphill and downhill directions. I assume the APU has already been proven for 110% uphill, so you'd need to demonstrate it for whatever capacity is assumed is ok on the downhill side. this can be dicey on a used engine, but the load capacity that you desire can be approached incrementally. you need existing brakes and braking surfaces in great condition for this testing. : )

anyhow, once the downhill capacity of the lift is determined you'd need to promise that the line speed would be dropped during loading, construct an unload deck as needed and put up signage. then you can have mountaintop events for the public, likely recouping any expenses in a year or two. like for the next eclipse maybe.

Green is already set up for downloading, plus there's easier non-lift access, Sunshine Corner facilities, etc. I don't think an extra 700' of vertical is worth the added hassle. If no lift was suitable for summer ops you'd have a much better case.

 

[ne_skier]

From the latest Alpine Update:

After a little break, our operations team, led by Paul Maitland, is already anxious to get a jump on the 24/25 season with lift maintenance and snowmaking projects over the off-season, and still some on-mountain repair work from last summer's flooding. But the snowmaking pond is back in shape and will be ready to start snowmaking in early November when the first cold snap hits for an early season opening!

The 24/25 season will feature:

- more snowmaking, earlier, for maximum coverage and fantastic grooming on our East and West Side snowmaking trails, plus adding Witch to Black Line to the snowmaking trails;
- the Black Quad, Red Chair and Green Chair ready-to-go for zero lines over the busy holiday periods and peak season;
- more great entertainment, food and beverages at the Black Line Tavern;
- and, most importantly, you! We only do all this for the most laid-back, welcoming and adventurous skiers and riders in the East who enjoy getting after it on the mountain and in Tavern.

 

[skithetrees]

“But the snowmaking pond is back in shape and will be ready to start snowmaking in early November when the first cold snap hits for an early season opening.”

Biggest news in there. They really need to be open earlier and have more terrain open the holiday week in order to be a serious player. This is huge if they can execute on it.

 

[letitsnow1]

The snowmaking pond was in great shape 12 months ago, alot can happen before November.
It would be great if they made snow on witch to black but without increased capacity I don't know how they can, they can't make sufficient snow on thier existing snow making terrain

 

[urungus]

The snowmaking pond was in great shape 12 months ago, alot can happen before November.
It would be great if they made snow on witch to black but without increased capacity I don't know how they can, they can't make sufficient snow on thier existing snow making terrain

The Update does mention “snowmaking projects over the off-season”

 

[Newpylong]

Even assuming no floods, horrific weather, or poor operational decisions, "more snowmaking" is only going to be relative without substantial changes to that pumphouse. Then you have adding Witch to Black on top of terrain they already can't cover before the end of February anyway...

Unless "snowmaking projects" includes the aforementioned common pump header at minimum or new pumps (not likely so soon after the Black spend), I would not expect monumental coverage changes. If the stars align I would expect a better start out of the gate though.

 

[slatham]

Can’t disagree on need to increase pump capacity, but having been involved with the day to day weather since Ski Magic took over, I can tell you that the #1 problem has been the late start due to various issues, pond being the big one these past 2 years. For instance this past year it was not inconceivable that they could have had a run off green for Thanksgiving Saturday, and easily the weekend after (in fact some natural trails could have opened). That’s a whole month earlier than what happened, all because they lost the very good mid November window, and the one right after thanksgiving.

 

[Newpylong]

Additional pumping capacity would help mitigate the effects of the events you describe.

If you did a proper snowmaking analysis (where you break the terrain down into required snow depth, required acre/ft of snow, available equipment, gallons required and temperature buckets at that location), you would find the number of hours needed at current pumping capacity to cover all snowmaking terrain is far beyond what is reasonably available in any given snowmaking season.

Now throw any "event" (weather, equipment failure, etc) into the mix early on and it throws it even more out of wack.

 

[IceEidolon]

Additional pumping capacity would help mitigate the effects of the events you describe.

If you did a proper snowmaking analysis (where you break the terrain down into required snow depth, required acre/ft of snow, available equipment, gallons required and temperature buckets at that location), you would find the number of hours needed at current pumping capacity to cover all snowmaking terrain is far beyond what is reasonably available in any given snowmaking season.

Now throw any "event" (weather, equipment failure, etc) into the mix early on and it throws it even more out of wack.

I do think they'd be able to use more pumproom capacity in certain situations, but I also think they'd be better served by installing the pumproom interconnect and getting more on-hill capacity, unless we're talking about an upgrade cycle where they can do both pumproom and on-hill work. There are a myriad of pain points in that system despite some real progress.

The air required to run the top of Upper Carpet - they really need to push the Impulses further uphill for the air savings. I know they've run portables almost as high up as the top of Trick. Even just two more guns to cover the top of Medium and the big intersection there means a substantial air savings. I think you could push another three or four hydrants uphill of that.

There's timing and access issues trying to start the summit before there's temperatures down in the valley, though I think the new snowmaking lead has worked on that some.

Showoff and the park/300 line output. There's no good way to get firepower into the park. Ain't no way in heck they should have a Ratnik running that low on the hill, either. As for Showoff, it soaks up everything they can give it in the early season - whether portable or permanent, it needs to put out more warm weather GPMs without running Ratniks.

There's a couple "pain points" on Wand that would appreciate something taller than a 10' sled, and this would free up portables and air. I'd cover the wide area parallel the Trick dogleg first.

If Lower Carpet for Christmas is a priority, and especially if they're actually getting the pump room interconnect, they've got to get some permanent low E towers for the wide sections and possibly on Vertigo. Ten Ratniks in a trenchcoat plus the full 17 gun low E fleet and the one permanent tower don't use all the available water right now, just on the 400 line, in warmer weather. If you swapped five rats for ten Impulses in that lineup, you about break even on output but you gain over 500 CFM to use elsewhere - like your 300 loop that previously was completely out of air, or if the interconnect is engaged the beginner's area.

What it boils down to is if the shuttle valves in the Impulses arent shuttled, there's usually an output problem, not a lack of pump capacity. Adding another 500 or 1000 GPM on the 400 line that gets two nights of runtime before Christmas is probably less effective than running both current pumps at or near full power most of the time - though, again, in the long term they definitely need both, and a cold November or December would make the new pump more effective. Plus the typical issues of a mostly portable, all manual old school system that you're running with three guys on a good night, which you also start to mitigate by adding more permanent towers. Which, speaking of permanent towers, if they can get a couple Impulses replacing the lower two Rats on Trick headwall, those Rat towers should probably end up on Upper Upper Carpet - they'd be faster to start and stop than moving portables up there would be. They also need to get Baby SG2 bodies/#265 nozzles on those if they haven't been swapped over in the last couple years. That's enough air saved to start up another two little Rats or six to seven Impulses in warm weather. (5xx CFM down to high 200s/low 300s CFM per gun)

I'll freely admit this is colored by my own experience, but I'm dealing with shades of similar issues and it wasn't lack of pumproom capacity that kept us closed over Christmas this year. I have done some temperature binning although weather data for Magic is at best sparse. Unfortunately I didn't write down my source for this, but I used 40 hours 28-24 degrees, 83 hours between 24 and 20 degrees, and 37 hours below 20 degrees before Christmas.

 

[Newpylong]

Sounds like they need you there lol. These are the little details that are paramount to running undersized systems most efficiently. Every gun (and their placement) and every minute matters.

It drives me bonkers to see how absolutely awful the snowmaking has been at my "hill" since I left because how poorly that (similarly undersized) system is run.