The NEW Magic Mountain

[IceEidolon]

Sounds like they need you there lol. These are the little details that are paramount to running undersized systems most efficiently. Every gun (and their placement) and every minute matters.

It drives me bonkers to see how absolutely awful the snowmaking has been at my "hill" since I left because how poorly that (similarly undersized) system is run.

If only there was reasonable housing available. I'm very happy where I ended up instead, though, and their snowmaking lead definitely knows how to use an HKD.

 

[slatham]

Happy to provide a bit of an update, and you have no idea how happy it is to NOT have to discuss the Quad!

Beautiful late afternoon hike with cool temps, low humidity and a nice breeze. Seemed overly hazing, likely some smoke.

Some Official news below from Alpine update. It’s a great move in my opinion- he’s done a great job and Geoff needs less on his plate.

The only obvious work I saw from work road hiking was some clearing where the connector trail from Green comes out into LMC. Although after hearing a rumor of new tower guns on that trail it is probably related to that. Showoff also to get some towers.

There was also an area cleared skiers left of Betwix - maybe some glade work?

Beers on deck and then an impromptu and very good BBQ rib dinner at bar.

Also heard volunteer day planning underway.

Unfortunately my pics are too large to upload? Never had that issue before.

From AU:

And, speaking of movers and shakers, I just announced yesterday the promotion of Magic's Mountain Operations Director to General Manager. Paul Maitland has been with us since 2022, after 25-years with Stratton Resort, and this is a well-deserved promotion to GM of the ski area and all its business units.

Paul has earned the respect of our staff in not only successfully managing the mountain operations group but bringing more staff input into all aspects of the business as we keep evolving Magic’s growth strategy through the end of this decade and beyond. The combination of Paul’s attention to detail in managing the customer experience across the mountain while collaboratively driving our team strategically to where Magic needs to be over the coming years is extremely important for our continued growth as an independently owned and operated ski area. Importantly, he is also a damn good guy!

New General Manager, Paul Maitland!

Paul had this to say: “I’m thrilled to have been asked to lead the team at Magic Mountain, where we embrace the challenge of preserving its unique character while modernizing essential aspects such as snowmaking and sustainability. I look forward to contributing to Magic’s iconic legacy, ensuring it remains a destination of choice for adventure-seekers of all abilities for generations to come.”

Please join me in congratulating Paul when you see him next at the Black Line Tavern for dinner or around the Londonderry area where he lives.
____________

 

[urungus]

Unfortunately my pics are too large to upload? Never had that issue before.

Thanks for the update. Newer phones have better cameras which take more detailed photos, resulting in larger file sizes. If you are uploading from iPhone/iPad, after you have selected your photo(s), there is an “Options” link at the bottom that allows you to reduce the size of your upload:

 

[slatham]

Urungus for the win!

 

[IceEidolon]

Anything on LMC will make a big difference. Hypothetically, twenty Impulse towers would let them start a gun just about every hundred feet, from Green unload to load, if they also use the portables - and they already have the air and water to make that happen. It'll be very noticable in marginal snowmaking weather, potentially doubling their 25 degrees wetbulb output. (If it did get cold they'd run out of water on the 400 line somewhere between Valve 2 and Valve 3, depending on the exact new guns they get.)

I also think getting some easy to start permanent guns on the 300 line is a good idea, especially if they aren't able to install a 300-400 cross feed for some reason.

Paul is good people and I'm excited for this winter.

 

[Newpylong]

Are the Towers going on Showoff for above the fan gun plugs or are those circuits toast? There was speculation last season when they switched to Showoff and had to wait to move equipment down and the fans were non-existent.

 

[IceEidolon]

Are the Towers going on Showoff for above the fan gun plugs or are those circuits toast?

Could be electrical issues, could be capacity - covering a 2000' trail with a 200 amp line and four or five guns available isn't quick, even if it's not marginal temps. Moreso now that they need Black lift and the whole base area early, plus the park, plus the learning area...

 

[Newpylong]

Capacity is a good take. The halting of usage did seem to coincide with Black coming into the mix.

 

[slatham]

Volunteer days are September 21st and October 5th. Hearing they may have a 3rd but it’s not on the calendar yet. Unfortunately can’t make 21st but should be there on 5th.

 

[IceEidolon]

Posts for the new sticks on Showoff are going in. Looks like relatively tight spacing. With the Showoff upgrade they'll be able to run Trick to Showoff all at once as soon as they start the system, but not quite Trick, Showoff, and Upper Carpet at one time unless it's in the mid teens. If Upper Trick gets new guns, that changes to "top to bottom as soon as the base area hits 26 degrees".

 

[slatham]

Valid point but they have moved away from Tick being an early to open trail, opting for MC-Medium off the summit. Also, if they are able to start early - which right now looks to be the case infrastructure wise - I bet they focus on Wand-Show Off from Green. Way less linear feet, and they can have every available gun going on full length since Wand is 400 line, and Show Off is 300. Quickest way to being open with chair lift service.

Also I don’t think they can put the new energy efficient HKDs on upper Trick (they already have them on lower 2/3’s) due to lack of required water pressure. IIRC when they first bought HKD towers they put a couple on upper Trick only to remove them.

In any event, plan is to go in early/mid November once temps allow so this should be a radically different rollout from anything Magic has done, ever. Fingers and skis crossed…….

 

[IceEidolon]

First off, I think you're correct that they'll include Wand to Showoff in the plan. Whichever route off the top they go for, it's an easy add and they have the equipment to cover the entire Green -> Wand -> Showoff route with about one gun every hundred feet. That'd be right around 4000 feet/40 guns. But that's only just enough CFM for them to turn on the second air compressor (assuming they use the same 70 CFM Impulse they've been using - in theory they could have gotten SV14 towers set for 30 CFM for some or all of Showoff). They have another 31 Impulses worth of air left at that point, and need to find someplace to use it.

They can run a 950 psi discharge pressure on the 400 line. 1500' of elevation gain to the summit means an expected 650 psi of pressure loss for a 300 psi summit pressure. Friction losses over a mile are substantial and do mean they're not reasonably able to run HKDs above the Trick/Carpet split, but they can push uphill of Medium. Worst case scenario they could spec a 100 or 115 CFM Impulse instead of a 70 CFM setup for those top couple of guns and still be ahead compared to using Ratniks, even the new Baby Rats. Same deal with the headwall on Trick - they could swap to Baby SG2 and cut their air use by at least 30%, or they could swap the lower two Rat towers for three Impulses. Even at 115 CFM, that's 345 versus over 800 CFM as currently configured, at 25 degrees wetbulb.

There's an argument for Carpet to Medium especially if they extend the HKDs uphill only on Carpet, but Medium has a lot more acreage width-wise than Trick, and requires coverage on a lot more of Carpet.

The 300 loop is not short on water even with the new guns, but the capacity they free up will put the 400 through its paces. IMO that's another reason to run the top on Day 1, to run near 100% of the pump capacity as often as possible. Depending on temperature they can switch out Impulse for Ratnik and vice versa.

I'm confident they're able to run the Impulses that high up the hill because they've used the portable Impulses as high as halfway between Medium and Trick. A full height stick would handle the lower pressure better. Getting another two guns uphill on Trick or six guns (below the intersection on Medium, just above the intersection, four hydrants uphill) on Carpet should be reasonable.

And whatever we decide, winter and the actual Ops team will manage to surprise us. But finally they'll have the efficiency to run as many as 60 or 70 guns simultaneously, even in marginal snowmaking weather!

 

[Newpylong]

This all sounds good but don't they only pump like 1300 GPM in total between both lines? 60 to 70 guns is a pipe dream if the number is anywhere around that.

That's the quantity of gear the medium hitters run with ~3,000 GPM+ and ~6,000 CFM. I don't see it at Magic with that system even if there is a remote chance on paper.

 

[slatham]

That’s a great question and I wonder what the answer is…….

All I know is from casual observation I’ve never seen more than around 30 guns running simultaneously, combo of 300 and 400 lines. That should be enough to cover Wand-Show Off. Hopefully they can run more.

 

[IceEidolon]

The GPM uphill isn't getting increased this winter, so IMO the best possible situation for them is "both pumps are at maximum and it's 26 degrees at the base". They'll only be able to do that with Showoff and potentially other trails with lots of new permanent towers, but the best place to use all your water is the core top to bottom early season route.

That might be my Southeast and Midwest snowmaking background showing through.

 

[IceEidolon]

Per Magic's Facebook, there are many new Impulses already installed on Lower Carpet - they didn't give exact numbers, but based on the couple of pictures there could be 30+ on that trail. Minimum, there's enough so that alongside the portables, they can run from Green unload to load.

If they didn't get the 300-400 tie in completed, they might be in "all our available water, at 26 degrees" territory on Lower Carpet - about the best place they could be in without buying an additional pump.

 

[skithetrees]

I think that getting lower carpet and showoff blown early season, even if access is just off green, is most important. Understanding with temperatures there may be windows where they can only really blow up top, but I do think they need to focus on those two routes being open from start to close. I do wonder if they prioritize hocus pocus at some point for easy access to the quad. I get all the racing on showoff, but having reliable snow to the primary lift and as you look out the lodge (huge mental factor) is important.

 

[Newpylong]

What feed is LMC on and what is the volume spread between the 300 and 400 lines? There is no way they'll be able to run 30 simultaneously on one pump.

 

[IceEidolon]

I guarantee they can run 30 Impulses on Valve 0 on LMC without maxing the 400 line. That's true even with 15 GPM Impulses, but easier if they went with a five stage gun with 12 GPM Valve 0.

The 400 line was, per inherited wisdom and backed up by the pump calculator, good for 600 GPM when running to the summit.

The 300 line was, same source, good for a bit more flow but at a bit lower pressure - it's supposedly the old main pump, and got demoted when the 450 HP pump on the 400 line went in.

Pump Power Calculator

Calculate pumps hydraulic and shaft power.

www.engineeringtoolbox.com

 

[Newpylong]

By Valve 0 do you mean Stage 1? They have all R5s.

On paper doesn't always equate to reality. Considering our primary pump was only 600 GPM as well, we never came anywhere close to being able to run 30 guns on a single unit given head and friction losses. Also there is no point in even running on Stage 1 outside of perhaps tying to avoid shutting down through a brief warmup. As soon as you move up to Stage 2 at 19 GPM per gun you're right up to nameplate capacity even without head or friction losses. This is even assuming those pumps are in a state of good health and can discharge at nameplate. Also add bleed overhead if they need to do that on any line.

20 or so guns seems to be safe startup number per line, and that number will go down as the wet bulb drops and they crank the valve position up.