The physics of speed

[ckofer]

Friction. Air friction and snow friction. Wax matters but some skis are faster in a carve too.

I ski on Metrons and when I really want to pass someone I ride the edges, even on a straight section. In this case, I find the most natural arc the ski wants. No plowing, skidding, etc. More like a skate that way.

 

[Greg]

GSS, as scary as it sounds, someday when yours and "Ms Right" (whoever it may be) turn some DNA into a kidlet

This truly is a terrifying thought.

 

[SkiDork]

 

[kingslug]

All things being equal, it comes down to ski length (stability) and tuning the bottoms. That seems to be the defining difference with the pros, imo.

My skis where tuned, his were not, and about the same length. Hmmmmmmmmmm. Maybe he is just faster, just not sure why. Next season we'll try some experiments, maybe at Whiteface, where truly scary speeds can be attained.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

My skis where tuned, his were not, and about the same length. Hmmmmmmmmmm. Maybe he is just faster, just not sure why. Next season we'll try some experiments, maybe at Whiteface, where truly scary speeds can be attained.

I am faster...and where truly scary speeds can be attained..I'll leave you in the dust.. Maybe Ski9 whose an expert when it comes to racing can shed some light on the subject..


Ski9..are you out there???

 

[ERJ-145CA]

Fart propulsion

AH HA HA HA!!!!!!!!

 

[dl]

maybe you should roll the hood up on your jacket - makes a nice parachute if you don't!

try switching skis and see what happens - some skis are inherently faster than others.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

I hate hoods for the reason that it creates extra drag so I buy jackets with hoods that zip off..

Ski9..where are you...we need your input...

 

[ski9]

So here's the question:
Two skiers about equal weight, same length skis, pretty mild terrain so no turns needed, yet one is faster than the other.
I tried racing GSS several times and could not out accelerate him. We where both straightlining it, started same time, yet he would just pull away from me.
I'm wondering if I 'm dragging an edge or something. Just couldn't figure it out.
Any "real" opinions.

Okay, we've had this discussion elsewhere and we actually did some fun things with a radar gun provided by a sponsor to ASRA a while back...and then there was the day I went into the woods while doing GPS speed runs on Sno's NF...

What makes a skier fast are a bunch of combined elements. First, you need to run a flat ski. Edging is slow. Downhillers make their turn and get back onto that flat ski ASAP. But then comes the base friction. Proper wax allows water to pass efficiently under your bases. No wax and bad wax (warm wax on a cold day) creates a suction. There's also static electricity...really.

Run a finger nail down the edge of your base and see if you hit any burrs. You'd be surprised how those little nicks can create drag.

Then there's aerodynamics. A good tuck, with hands out in front of your chin and your weight forward...

There have been studies done, trying to figure out just how far a downhiller should suck up certain jumps. Theoretically, catching big air off a breakover should be faster to the finish, but a racers break in form more than errases the benefits of the 'free fall'. That's why racers pre-jump and try to stay on the ground as much as possible.

The skier's weight matters, but so does how much air he's displacing. If you watch USSA J4's, where form is sometimes second to brute force, a chubby kid will drop out of the wand and be a second ahead of the feather weight kids. Now, in a J4 GS, aerodynamic advantage is minimal, but skinny kids can slip through the air better. World Cup downhillers have traditionally been big people, with long limbs for angulation. Racers like Doug Lewis are by far the exception, for anyone who has attended a Sugarbush race camp and been surprised by how small the guy is. He's also one of the best coaches on the planet, btw....

So how does someone ski as fast as GSS?

Doug is fast because he's skied for so many years under so many different conditions. I've seen him make those tiny adjustments going from crud to ice to bumps like it's nothing. He's simply made those adjustments a million times. It can be frustrating because he doesn't have a racer's tuck or a racer's form, but he runs a flat ski perfectly. His edges interupt minimally. To beat Doug, you need to get your weight forward and have the idea of 'beating your skis to the bottom'.

 

[from_the_NEK]

My skis where tuned, his were not, and about the same length. Hmmmmmmmmmm. Maybe he is just faster, just not sure why. Next season we'll try some experiments, maybe at Whiteface, where truly scary speeds can be attained.

Proper wax allows water to pass efficiently under your bases. No wax and bad wax (warm wax on a cold day) creates a suction. There's also static electricity...really.

If you just had your skis tuned, what wax did they put on and what were the conditions when you were skiing?
I have had this happen before when I have waxed my skis with warm temp wax and tried to ski when it is 10 degrees. I almost feel like I have climbing wax on :roll: and it takes a lot of effort to get up to a speed where momentum finally overtakes the friction (or suction) of the wax. I feel that often no wax is preferable.
Last year (Spring 2007) I got second in the speed trap race at Burke wearing my rock skis clocking in at 61 mph (A BMA racer in a speed suit and perfectly tuned racing skis beat me by 1.2 mph). I had stripped off my hooded jacket and was contemplating removing my very vented helmet (The sound of the air rushing through it at that speed is amazing, you can feel it pull backward like a parachute). The conditions were sloppy spring corn/mashed potatoes and I had no wax. However, in those conditions the wet snow actually already has a good layer of water for your skis to slide on. Cold wax would actually slow you down. I do have an advantage in that I have a very strong skating stride to accelerate quickly.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

I wear a Giro Fuse Helmet..and the vents are often open..Once I hit over about 45-50mph..my helmet starts to whistle..I've had high speed cruiser runs on Gros Verte and Sundance at Jackson Hole where my Helmet whistled the entire run..Nothing like knocking off 2700+ vert in 2.5 minutes..

 

[ski9]

I got second in the speed trap race at Burke wearing my rock skis clocking in at 61 mph ....and was contemplating removing my very vented helmet .

Funny and a little insane at the same time.

 

[kingslug]

Conditions where very variable that day. Frozen solid to mush. Don't know what wax where on them, the shop did it. I might not be running a flat ski though. I think for next season I'm going to a good boot fitter and have my stance analyzed. My new boots are going to be with me for a while so I think it's worth spending some more money on them. besides, I hate being left in the dust......

 

[ski9]

Conditions where very variable that day. Frozen solid to mush. Don't know what wax where on them, the shop did it. I might not be running a flat ski though. I think for next season I'm going to a good boot fitter and have my stance analyzed. My new boots are going to be with me for a while so I think it's worth spending some more money on them. besides, I hate being left in the dust......

IDK, kingslug, I've been a beer league racer since the mid-80's, spent a few years racing ASRA and doing the camps at Sugarbush, and usually end up with a NASTAR National HC under 10, but I have trouble keeping up with GSS when we're Chinese downhilling.

His, uh, elegant turkey tucks and spread-eagle crotch grabs aside, he's the fastest all mountain (meaning non-racing) skier I believe I've ever skied with. He's also a complete dumbass in that a total hottie from a message board will make the trip to Blue just to take some runs with the infamous GSS and be part of his equally infamous TR's, and yet what does he do? If she's not at the lift corral within 30 seconds of him, he'll hop on the chair and blow her off. He just refuses to learn from me...

Bottom line is that you aren't alone in trying to keep up with him. If you want to feel better, offer to pay for his NASTAR runs. He doesn't like when those plastic things try to tell him where to turn.

 

[kingslug]

IDK, kingslug, I've been a beer league racer since the mid-80's, spent a few years racing ASRA and doing the camps at Sugarbush, and usually end up with a NASTAR National HC under 10, but I have trouble keeping up with GSS when we're Chinese downhilling.

His, uh, elegant turkey tucks and spread-eagle crotch grabs aside, he's the fastest all mountain (meaning non-racing) skier I believe I've ever skied with. He's also a complete dumbass in that a total hottie from a message board will make the trip to Blue just to take some runs with the infamous GSS and be part of his equally infamous TR's, and yet what does he do? If she's not at the lift corral within 30 seconds of him, he'll hop on the chair and blow her off. He just refuses to learn from me...

Bottom line is that you aren't alone in trying to keep up with him. If you want to feel better, offer to pay for his NASTAR runs. He doesn't like when those plastic things try to tell him where to turn.

High peaks drifter at Whiteface is also a rocket, no way could I even get close to him. His 40 plus years on the slopes just kills my measly 12. But yes Doug is damn impossible to keep up with but great to chase around. I always try to ski with people better than me, best way to improve. I imagine that trying to keep up with him at JH could prove fatal !!!

 

[Greg]

High peaks drifter at Whiteface is also a rocket, no way could I even get close to him. His 40 plus years on the slopes just kills my measly 12. But yes Doug is damn impossible to keep up with but great to chase around. I always try to ski with people better than me, best way to improve. I imagine that trying to keep up with him at JH could prove fatal !!!

HPD is a great skier. Certainly among the top AZers I've skied with.

Remember though, slug, faster is not always better. It depends on the terrain.

 

[kingslug]

HPD is a great skier. Certainly among the top AZers I've skied with.

Remember though, slug, faster is not always better. It depends on the terrain.

I've slowed my act down quite a bit but still like to blast when the coast is clear. HPD had to slow down a lot when skiing with me and the wife, she has a much slower speed limit than me and he just kept disappearing. Have to be careful at WF, very easy to pick up huge speed and wipe out.

 

[ski9]

Remember though, slug, faster is not always better. It depends on the terrain.

And I must respectfully disagree.

 

[Greg]

And I must respectfully disagree.

Everything else being equal, the skier who is faster is the better skier. I guess my point is the guy who can ski the entire mountain at moderate speed is a better overall skier than the guy who is only fast on the race course.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Everything else being equal, the skier who is faster is the better skier. I guess my point is the guy who can ski the entire mountain at moderate speed is a better overall skier than the guy who is only fast on the race course.

Tru-dat..I feel it's best to be an All-Mountain Skier..and I don't classify rails as part of the all-mountain experience..

It's nice to be able to switch your style up..alot of people can straight run groomers..some can straight run crud..but very few can straight run moguls..big GS turns on groomed or crud is great but big GS turns in the moguls will have you flat on your back..

Kind of like 50-cent says..Go head switch your style up..and if they hate let them hate and watch the ski days pile up..