The problem with Stowe

[riverc0il]

It's probably BS but I heard that their college pass (already an absurd $420) could be going up next year.

the stowe college season pass is cheaper than almost any big mountain's full season pass for an adult. once you graduate, you'll be looking at that $420 as a bargain. i would jump on $420 as a college student in a heart beat if i was going to college in burlington and had the money. it is consistent with their adult rates, about twice as much as most ski areas for a season pass.

regarding state land use, i am sure vermont loves the revenue stowe generates and stowe can probably do almost anything it wants at this point as long as it keeps pumping money into the state coffers. quite a bit of expansion going on there right now without much opposition.

 

[RISkier]

My wife and I really love Stowe and I've likely been guilty of talking up its merits. But the window prices for daily lift tickets are absurd (but weekend ticket prices of $62 at a place like Sunapee are pretty absurd as well). Coupled with high local lodging prices it keeps us away from weekend trips. I THINK their target market consists of 1) locals who purchase season passes (not inexpensive by any means), 2) the extended stay vacation market, and increasingly 3) the high end. They have a vacation rewards program that gives very good deals on multiday lift tickets. They clearly aren't concerned about attracting day skiers.

 

[threecy]

If they dropped their price $10-$20 and it became mobbed, I don't think anyone would be too happy! It's simple supply and demand - they see enough profit at their current prices to make it worthwhile, so they charge it and apparently do fine by it. More power to them.

 

[snoseek]

If they dropped their price $10-$20 and it became mobbed, I don't think anyone would be too happy! It's simple supply and demand - they see enough profit at their current prices to make it worthwhile, so they charge it and apparently do fine by it. More power to them.

i'm not asking them to drop their price, just a midweek day or two per week that us mere mortals can go over there and ski. I doubt it would be that bad.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

How much control AIG has over the purse strings of Stowe is something I have yet to get a straight answer to. Like most major ski resort developements the new Spruce Peak Village has been years in the making.

In the last 10 years they have proposed at least 2 other plans and were confronted with a huge amount of opposition both from the locals and the state. One of the problems they have been trying to fix is lack of snowmaking water.

About 8 years ago they actually proposed, unbelievably, building a pipeline to Waterbury Resevoir. Course, that went over like a dead duck and ironicly, a couple of years later the lake was drained to a very low level to repair the dam.

Someone mentioned the Big Pass, that brings back some memories. I think it was just one year, maybe 2, think Jay was also included, and one time when the Bush opened up before Stowe and Stowe was having computer problems many area skiers were pretty miffed as they had to pick up their passes at the resort they ordered it from so they were unable to ski until Stowe's system was back up and running.

Someone mentioned it's supply and demand. I think this is true but to a point. If S&D totally ruled then midweek prices Would be cheaper. BTW, the Bush has added an interesting twist to their College Pass, it's available also the next season after you graduate.

Money aside the Stowe ski experience is rich in heritage and their terrain is beloved by many.

 

[skizilla]

Stowe Over priced YESS!!!!

They are way over priced. Okemo Killington and stratton are in the same ball park price wise, but for your money there you get superior snowmaking, grooming lift infrastructure and in killingtons case greater vertical and more acreage. Stowe is blessed with abundant natural snow, high elevation, and a northern vermont positions. Threee factors that should sace them tremendous money and encourage attendance. Yet they charge the most in New England and theoretically have the advantage of having to spend less and offer less.

Stowe is an awesome montain terrain wise and yes it has unmatched history and sntimental appeal, but because of its price I rarely fo there. Were I that far north I would rather go to sugar bush or smuggers.

 

[skicone]

As it has already been mentioned several times in this thread, the ski resort business IS a business. From most perspectives, Stowe runs a pretty good business. They charge according to their economic plan and apparently are prospering. I just returned from Bolton over the weekend and the conditions were excellent. Boot-deep on Saturday. Lament economics all day if you wish but as long as Stowe meets its numbers why should they change.

 

[Warp Daddy]

Stowe is what it is, an over-priced , over-hyped , over over-rated area .


There are lots of other good places to ski if you don't feel like getting "boosted" by the MAN

However if you WANT the supposed cache of STOWE u gotta pay

 

[Brettski]

I really liked Stowe

But there is no way I am going to drop almost 4 bills for a family of 5.

Used to go alot in the past, stay at the Trapp Guest houses, with a boat load of people...

Ahh memories....

Visited the Mountain on a rainy spring day last year..wait, that's 2 years ago now, Mountain was wiped out, Gondolier was half brown, it was raining, it was a Tuesday, and they still had the balls to charge full freight...and there was no one on the Mountain

Go figure

Still, It's a great Mountain..especially the woods

 

[Bumpsis]

What's your breaking point?

(but weekend ticket prices of $62 at a place like Sunapee are pretty absurd as well QUOTE]

Yeah, that's another good example of pricing that's crazy, especially for an intermediate hill like Sunapee.

So this begs the question: What's your price point at which you'd say "it's too rich for me"?
As a skiing family man (wife and two juniors) I'm already in financial denial, since a day on the slopes, just in lift tickets costs me about $ 200 (or more, depending on the place). If the conditions are good, I still think it's worth it, given what we get out of it.
But obviously, I won't be skiing at Stowe - not worth the money.

 

[JD]

Interseting article in the Stowe Distorter about their market earlier this season. They target the upper 8-10 percent of the skiers as thier client.

As mentioned, they are owned by the largest inusrance company in the world. The history of that company is tied to the Mountain. Originally a private insurance company owned by Starr, when he died Greenburg was in charge of bringing the company public and setting up philanthropic organizations to support arts and education. What he did was something different.

He sold the company to himself first at pennies on the dollar. Then he went public with the company and viola, Greenburg became one of the richest men in the world. Yes, he stabbed his disceased boss in the back, yes he took profits that should have been distributed into a number of socially beneficial programs and put it in his own pocket. Since then AIG has been at the top of the list of offenders of tax law, making huge profits and hidding them in tax havens. Also creating phony re-insurance companies where they would funnel money from, and then back to AIG in an attempt inflate thier earnings so they write more policies on this infalted value (an insurance company can only write policies to a certain total amount based on their value as a company to avoid them not being able to pay out in case of a mass claim filling) SEC in Delaware attempted to investigate, but Greenburg used his personal weath, ill-gotten, to intimidate the federal investigators. Finally NY got him, and he resigned. The management of the comapny has shown so little respect for any sort of morality, the expansion is rediculous. A GOLF COURSE. At the head of the little river. Rediculous. The town of Stowe Select board can only think of their own gains in property value. They publicly state that the expansion will benefit the entire town, but it actually sequesters the tourists at the Mtn., instead encouraging them to come down from the Manor House and spend their mony at the locally owned businesses.

Classic case of , "if you nave to ask, go to Smuggs."

That all being the main reason for me to not buy a pass there. If the pass was a G, but the hill was owned by, say, a cooperative of local skiers/riders and business, I would B there. But the more I looked at it, the more I realized I was adding to the consolidation of wealth and power, something that I see as a pretty major flaw in the staus quo, and it would be extremely hipocritical of me to do so.

But don't let that stop you. At the heart of this place is it's history. Despite the dynamiting of the dive, the widening of the trails and the utter defacing of the notch, a true treasure in the east as far as skiable terrain, the place is still full of true, core skiers and riders that are passionate about the history, the asthetics, and the snow, not because of what the resort has cultivated, but in spite of it. And we do love that place. So many special runs, shelters, steeps, vista. Nothing stopping any of you from skiing it for free. Spend the 250 on trekkers and skins. For the price of 3 day passes there, you'll have access for the rest of your life, and you will experience it the way it was, self powered.
And when you lay edge to edge tracks down lift line, waterfall, and chinclip on a pow day, take some pleasure in the fact that all those people that just payed 1500 for a pass, or 75 for a ticket, will be crossing your tracks all the way to the new over-cheesy gondola.

The price is only a fraction of the problem with Stowe (tm).
((*
*))
((*
JD


ps
the skiing is great up there. If you ski trails, go elsewhere, but if you ski natural terrain, it's where you wanna be.

 

[deadheadskier]

Stowe is very expensive and it does not seem to make a lot of sense why they wouldn't offer a mid week deal, but apparently their CFO thinks they have the best profit model in place as it is.

Even at $76, if you catch the mountain on a good day, I think its a far superior deal to most ski areas in the northeast, IF you are an advanced skier looking for the most lift accessed back country options in the east. The terrain there when you include what lies out of bounds, is outstanding with good snow.

Let's face it - no matter where you go or how you slice it, skiing is EXPENSIVE. Their are decent deals to be had, but even at that - its expensive. I'm only able to go once a week because the all for one pass is so affordable. Without it, I'd probably only go a half dozen times a winter or so.

 

[Brettski]

Just when did thingfs change....

My first time to Vermont was in 1989...my first Mountain was Stowe..outside of Jersey and the pokes

We stayed at the Trapp Lodge and it was fabulous...skiied over Easter week

Had all types of weather...one day as I recall was in the 60's...later in the week it snowed

We were such the beginners, my (new) wife fell off the side of toll road...into chest deep pow....that took awhile

I still love Stowe, the town the mountain, the woods.....but it is very different now from back then

 

[deadheadskier]

I would agree that it is different. It has definitely gotten more exclusive since when I first came to town in 95. Locals would agree. Then again, what mountain hasn't changed since 89 outside of a few? The sport in general is more exclusive than it once was.

 

[salida]

Somebody call the WHAMbulence.

Come on, quit your whining.

If you want to focus on overpriced mountains, look to K-ton (and all of ASC minus Pico), Okemo, Stratton, Sunapee, B-woods and others. These mountains are all charging 60 plus dollar weekend tickets and they are all offering the same thing, groomed out wide boulevard snowmaking trails. At least Stowe is providing something that no other mountain in the East can: incredibly challenging natural snow terrain, with arguably the greatest natural snowpack on the east coast. (Yes, the Jay snowpack is roughly the same http://www.uvm.edu/skivt-l/?Page=depths.php).

As to address prices, skiing is an expensive sport. Yes, if you search around and position yourself properly you don't pay the premium. Hell, I have not paid for any lift tickets at all this season (except days at Monarch and Wolfcreek). If you know what you are doing you'll find a way to work the system. Stowe charges $76 because people are willing to pay it. You can BS all you want, but its sheerly business. They can do this and not care if the lifts aren't full on a Tuesday, because in the end most of their revenue is coming from Full Price weekend tickets. If they can cover their fixed costs on a Tuesday, they have no incentive to offer discounts.

As for guilt tripping the mountain into making them feel bad b/c you feel like you have been put at an injustice for the high prices. Come on man, be smarter than this, they wont feel the hurt if you don't pay their prices.

Stowe should not feel the brunt of this debate. Argue about Mt. Snow or Okemo charging to much. When those mountains can offer terrain likes this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueII8sWd1Qw & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtQeZKTBppo (oh man, could that really be a face shot in the supposedly snowless winter of 06-07... ahem, come on, it was even done the old fashioned way of using your own two feet to get up the mountain).

I hate to be condescending in the manner that I have been in this thread. But before people start complaining, please examine what you are complaining about. Stowe may not be perfect but they are a hell of a lot better than the high price chargers in southern VT.

Porter

 

[JimG.]

Come on, quit your whining.

If you want to focus on overpriced mountains, look to K-ton (and all of ASC minus Pico), Okemo, Stratton, Sunapee, B-woods and others. These mountains are all charging 60 plus dollar weekend tickets and they are all offering the same thing, groomed out wide boulevard snowmaking trails. At least Stowe is providing something that no other mountain in the East can: incredibly challenging natural snow terrain, with arguably the greatest natural snowpack on the east coast. (Yes, the Jay snowpack is roughly the same http://www.uvm.edu/skivt-l/?Page=depths.php).

As to address prices, skiing is an expensive sport. Yes, if you search around and position yourself properly you don't pay the premium. Hell, I have not paid for any lift tickets at all this season (except days at Monarch and Wolfcreek). If you know what you are doing you'll find a way to work the system. Stowe charges $76 because people are willing to pay it. You can BS all you want, but its sheerly business. They can do this and not care if the lifts aren't full on a Tuesday, because in the end most of their revenue is coming from Full Price weekend tickets. If they can cover their fixed costs on a Tuesday, they have no incentive to offer discounts.

As for guilt tripping the mountain into making them feel bad b/c you feel like you have been put at an injustice for the high prices. Come on man, be smarter than this, they wont feel the hurt if you don't pay their prices.

Stowe should not feel the brunt of this debate. Argue about Mt. Snow or Okemo charging to much. When those mountains can offer terrain likes this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueII8sWd1Qw & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtQeZKTBppo (oh man, could that really be a face shot in the supposedly snowless winter of 06-07... ahem, come on, it was even done the old fashioned way of using your own two feet to get up the mountain).

I hate to be condescending in the manner that I have been in this thread. But before people start complaining, please examine what you are complaining about. Stowe may not be perfect but they are a hell of a lot better than the high price charges in southern VT.

Porter

Well said Porter...I agree with everything you said.

This is a business, subject to the law of supply and demand. Stowe charges what they do because they can and alot of people will pay it. Like Porter, I work the system and have skied there for free on more than one occasion. But if I were to go and not be able to get a deal, I'd still pay the $ to ski there. Great mountain with alot of things to offer other than the standard McMountain crap that costs almost as much.

People who don't like the price have issues with the capitalist system, not Stowe. They'll charge what they can until demand drops; until then, either pay or don't ski there because complaining will change nothing.

 

[Warp Daddy]

While Stowe is highly touted by the "ski media", frankly while its picturesque i see No SPECIAL "magic " there having skied it on a few occasions.


IMHO Lake Placid and Whiteface offer BOTH greater vert and BETTER off hill ambiance at less cost .

 

[Newpylong]

Spend your money and time at Sugarbush with the rest of the "real" people... it's a better mountain anyway.

 

[JimG.]

While Stowe is highly touted by the "ski media", frankly while its picturesque i see No SPECIAL "magic " there having skied it on a few occasions.


IMHO Lake Placid and Whiteface offer BOTH greater vert and BETTER off hill ambiance at less cost .

Then YOUR money is better spent at Whiteface.

 

[JimG.]

Spend your money and time at Sugarbush with the rest of the "real" people... it's a better mountain anyway.

I probably shouldn't ask, but can you detail exactly what is "better" at Sugarbush?

I've skied both mountains and I like both of them alot. But I view Stowe as more of a skier's mountain...that does not mean I think Stowe is "better", just different in a way I appreciate.