The story of stuff

[jack97]

Not sad. Entirely normal.


Again, the information is good and important. The delivery is bad. Good information + bad delivery = no message. Conversely (and perhaps perversely), bad information + good delivery = strong message. Just look at {insert favorite commercial/social/political bugaboo here}.

Sad in a way that we have to be spoon fed in terms of content delivery. Seems we are a nation built on this manner, the quality of the delivery.

I had to suffer my way thru college up to grad school listening to foreign speaking professors whose delivery was worse than this. The dean of eng would just laugh us out of campus if we said we can't deal with the messenger.

 

[ctenidae]

Sad in a way that we have to be spoon fed in terms of content delivery. Seems we are a nation built on this manner, the quality of the delivery.

I had to suffer my way thru college up to grad school listening to foreign speaking professors whose delivery was worse than this. The dean of eng would just laugh us out of campus if we said we can't deal with the messenger.

I don't think it's a cultural thing. It's more of a human thing. Probably a biological thing.

The difference with school is that you chose to be there.If you want someone to listen to something they don't want to hear, you have to make the delivery appealing. That's just the way it is.

 

[jack97]

The difference with school is that you chose to be there.If you want someone to listen to something they don't want to hear, you have to make the delivery appealing. That's just the way it is.

Nope, it's not even in school, it's my profession, its about content. Not matter how someone will deliver a pretty message about how a engineering design should work; be it software or hardware, in the end, the content comes out, either it works or it doesn't. Making something sound good does not change that end result.

Normally, we use the guys with the smooth delivery for damage control when the sh!t hits the fan.

 

[ctenidae]

Normally, we use the guys with the smooth delivery for damage control when the sh!t hits the fan.

See? Bad news, good delivery.:grin:

 

[jack97]

See? Bad news, good delivery.:grin:

No.... more like news they want to hear with good delivery.

 

[danny p]

thanks for posting that JD. I thought it was really good, even with the messenger's delivery. I am used to having to listen to people like her between work and school, so if I know I can learn something, I grin and bear the delivery to get the information I want.

One point she made was that somewhere in the 1950s we turned into a consumer nation. So bringing it back to today, its been 58 years (approx.) that we have been living this way. What would happen if we stopped consuming (prob. not possible)? I mean, wouldn't our economy collapse? I don't have a strong economics background, but it seems that we have built our financial survival around this country consuming the way it does? Thoughts?

 

[ctenidae]

One point she made was that somewhere in the 1950s we turned into a consumer nation. So bringing it back to today, its been 58 years (approx.) that we have been living this way. What would happen if we stopped consuming (prob. not possible)? I mean, wouldn't our economy collapse? I don't have a strong economics background, but it seems that we have built our financial survival around this country consuming the way it does? Thoughts?

It's not so much our financial survival that revolves around consumption as it is our financial system that revolves around consumption. For the past 50 years, our country has been funded by FIRE- Finance, Insurance, and Real Estate. Breaks in those sectors cause consumption disruptions. And when two of them get together and go bugnuts, the hangover can be severe (I'm looking at you, Finance and Real Estate). 50 years of increase in the value of real estate is going to get clobbered by 10 years of increases in price. Then we're in for a world of hurt. A study I read a couple of weeks ago showed the balance on credit cards vs the draws on home equity. Credit cards were going up, and then 8 years ago home equity draws started going up and credit cards went down, as people drew on low interest equity to pay off high interest credit cards. Equity lines got tapped out, and then credit cards started rising again. What happened was that people started out smart and paid down credit cards, but then got stupid and started charging up the cards again. Now there's no home equity to bail them out, and they're stuck with two massive piles of debt. People now can't afford to service both piles and continue to consume as they have.

The Fed can cut interest rates all they want (and they will), but that won't cure the underlying ills. I think we're in for a protracted retrenchment, and it's the developing markets that make all our stuff that are going to get hit the hardest when we stop buying.

 

[jack97]

thanks for posting that JD. I thought it was really good, even with the messenger's delivery. I am used to having to listen to people like her between work and school, so if I know I can learn something, I grin and bear the delivery to get the information I want.

One point she made was that somewhere in the 1950s we turned into a consumer nation. So bringing it back to today, its been 58 years (approx.) that we have been living this way. What would happen if we stopped consuming (prob. not possible)? I mean, wouldn't our economy collapse? I don't have a strong economics background, but it seems that we have built our financial survival around this country consuming the way it does? Thoughts?

Radical thought, getting back to the point.

In my line of work, I sometimes work with industrial designer that put plastics material around the products we design. These guys are only concern about making it cheap and if these plastic enclosures are open then the product is consider a throwaway. Totally different than what I was use to thinking back 20 years ago. Point is, the throwaway concept is what I am contributing into right know :?

I was just talking to someone who has working at china b/c the manual labor cost is cheap over there, these people can get by with anywhere from $20-$100/month (US dollars). No way we can do that here. If you look at whats happening, seems we have an economy built on services and consumption. Manufacturing industry has gone by the wayside over the past 30 years. Farming and livestock production have become mechanized to minimize our high labor cost. Not actually sure what the short term and long term solution is, maybe our standard of living has to go down or get to par with the other strong or upcoming economies.

 

[jack97]

I think we're in for a protracted retrenchment, and it's the developing markets that make all our stuff that are going to get hit the hardest when we stop buying.

My wife is concerned that China is looking into other markets to consumes the goods they produce; S/E Asia, Europe and Africa.

 

[ctenidae]

My wife is concerned that China is looking into other markets to consumes the goods they produce; S/E Asia, Europe and Africa.

My thought is that China would very much like to be selling into one market, and one market only- China. If you look at the history of China, they've always been isolationist, rabidly at times. The further you are from Bejing, the less desireable you are. They fully appreciate all the money we've given them to build their infrastructure, all the technology we've given them, and the opportunity we've given them to build out a middle class. If/when that middle class becomes self-supporting, China will close its doors again. And then we'll have to get Nixon's head back off the shelf and send him over to open it up again.

 

[jack97]

My thought is that China would very much like to be selling into one market, and one market only- China. If you look at the history of China, they've always been isolationist, rabidly at times. The further you are from Bejing, the less desireable you are. They fully appreciate all the money we've given them to build their infrastructure, all the technology we've given them, and the opportunity we've given them to build out a middle class. If/when that middle class becomes self-supporting, China will close its doors again. And then we'll have to get Nixon's head back off the shelf and send him over to open it up again.

History was back then (sounds like something Yogi would says) and should not be ignored. China has establish strong diplomatic ties with countries in Africa. Also, they are doing the same in some of the middle east to get oil. Days of isolationism may be gone, time will tell.

Another historic thing to keep in mind, it took Japan about a decade to build up their middle class such that the standard of living would not support cheap labor. China has lots more cheap labor and IMO, will take longer to build up that middle class.

 

[ctenidae]

History was back then (sounds like something Yogi would says) and should not be ignored. China has establish strong diplomatic ties with countries in Africa. Also, they are doing the same in some of the middle east to get oil. Days of isolationism may be gone, time will tell.

Another historic thing to keep in mind, it took Japan about a decade to build up their middle class such that the standard of living would not support cheap labor. China has lots more cheap labor and IMO, will take longer to build up that middle class.

China has strong ties with oil producing countries we won't talk to because of their human rights issues. China isn't so squeamish.

China's not going to have a middle class overnight, but 14% annual growth tends to shorten timelines somewhat.

 

[Marc]

So is this all stuff you allready know, or don't want to know about. Is it ignorance is bliss, or screw the rest of the world, their just jealous?

I already told you I know I'm evil. I accept that. I choose not to live off the land as a secluded hermit. I'm evil, so I eat, drink and be merry with all my evil cohorts.

 

[jack97]

China has strong ties with oil producing countries we won't talk to because of their human rights issues. China isn't so squeamish.

China's not going to have a middle class overnight, but 14% annual growth tends to shorten timelines somewhat.

Yup, China is not squeamish, even to people within.

Another factoid I heard is that in that the salary ratio between middle management to the lowest level worker is about 10:1. In US, per job sector, it's about 3:1. Chinese schools start weeding bad students out at elementary and continue up to college. And country folks (traditional farm peasant) do not have access to education. So even if the annual growth is 14%, what China is doing is making a bigger economic divide between the haves and haves not. They have more influence on maintaining that cheap labor force.

 

[JD]

So if anyone in interested in the next step, cruise the web site. It's all there. Basically, change YOUR consumer habits. It's more affective then how you vote, that's for sure.

 

[snoseek]

Bump I just watched this and fully enjoyed. Why are so many in this thread so concerned about the messenger, take a hard look at the message. I am by no means perfect, but have tried like hell to go against the grain just for my own sake.

Imagine paying cash for everything you ever own, buying top quality stuff and never replacing it, that would rule.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Imagine paying cash for everything you ever own, buying top quality stuff and never replacing it, that would rule.

True dat..I once had a 20 inch Magnavox that I paid $180 bucks for at Target...after about 2 years..the picture started to fade and it eventually died...so I threw it in the dumpster..drove to Target and bought a steezier 20-inch magnavix for $140..and it's been good ever since. Planned Obselescense (sp?) at it's finest..If my TV dies again..I'll just buy another 20-inch magnavox and it's now probably 120 bucks and even steezier..I wonder how much a TV repair man charges???

 

[Warp Daddy]

Just watched this presentation for the first time . > Frankly from my perspective (born in 1943 ) i find that most of this information rings Quite True > . Several of these notions have been observed in my lifetime

And yes IT is DISTURBING -- its the old Pogo notion " We have met the enemy and it is us "

I was able to focus my attention on the message rather than the messenger . Perhaps its an age bias but to me if the message resonates , the messenger is irrelevant .