The "Sugarbush Thread"

[thetrailboss]

Re: why so few restaurants?

“Staffing in Stowe is unlike any other town that we have operated in,” Adler added. In fact, “Staffing in Vermont is unlike any other state we’ve operated in.” In his view, “Vermont has a unique problem compared to New York and Massachusetts … If we want to have a tourist economy, if we want to have a flourishing food-service economy, we need to address our labor shortage, which does tie back to housing and cost of living.”

The Skinny Pancake Group Closes Its Stowe Restaurant

Founder-owner Benjy Adler said that labor shortages prompted the closure and called Vermont the hardest area to staff of the three states where he operates.

www.sevendaysvt.com

 

[ThatGuy]

One of the many strange ideas Vermont has had was back in 2021 when they had that remote worker program where the state would pay you $7500 to relocate there. No idea how bringing remote workers who already have a job is supposed to help local companies.

 

[thetrailboss]

One of the many strange ideas Vermont has had was back in 2021 when they had that remote worker program where the state would pay you $7500 to relocate there. No idea how bringing remote workers who already have a job is supposed to help local companies.

This in part. The biggest issues I see are: (1) the demographic changes, and (2) that policymakers for decades continued on with decisions while their collective heads were in the sand regarding the unintended consequences of said decisions.

 

[cdskier]

One of the many strange ideas Vermont has had was back in 2021 when they had that remote worker program where the state would pay you $7500 to relocate there. No idea how bringing remote workers who already have a job is supposed to help local companies.

I have no idea why, but I've seen a bunch of posts showing lately in my Facebook feed about a bunch of VT government workers (or more specifically their union) being vocally opposed to the recent return to office directive for state workers. Apparently a good number of VT state workers moved out of state (or were hired remotely during covid). So VT tax dollars are paying people that don't live in the state and in many cases don't provide any income to any state businesses. Very interesting. (Note I'm not saying living in state should be a requirement...just saying it is another example of VT money leaving the state).

 

[thetrailboss]

I have no idea why, but I've seen a bunch of posts showing lately in my Facebook feed about a bunch of VT government workers (or more specifically their union) being vocally opposed to the recent return to office directive for state workers. Apparently a good number of VT state workers moved out of state (or were hired remotely during covid). So VT tax dollars are paying people that don't live in the state and in many cases don't provide any income to any state businesses. Very interesting. (Note I'm not saying living in state should be a requirement...just saying it is another example of VT money leaving the state).

Yeah, if folks kept their state job and moved out of state, then that is not good.

 

[ThatGuy]

Yeah, if folks kept their state job and moved out of state, then that is not good.

You would think living in state or at least driving distance would be a requirement of said state job. I know there are a decent amount of NYS workers who live in Bennington but you can get from there to Albany in under an hour.

 

[thetrailboss]

You would think living in state or at least driving distance would be a requirement of said state job. I know there are a decent amount of NYS workers who live in Bennington but you can get from there to Albany in under an hour.

I know that in Utah it is a rule.

 

[cdskier]

You would think living in state or at least driving distance would be a requirement of said state job. I know there are a decent amount of NYS workers who live in Bennington but you can get from there to Albany in under an hour.

I tend to agree unless you're close within reasonable commuting distance. Part of the argument from this particular union is that it is hard enough to find people in VT to fill the jobs, so if they mandate going to the office and they lose all these remote workers and the potential to fill jobs with out-of-staters, there will be even more unfilled jobs.

 

[ThatGuy]

I tend to agree unless you're close within reasonable commuting distance. Part of the argument from this particular union is that it is hard enough to find people in VT to fill the jobs, so if they mandate going to the office and they lose all these remote workers and the potential to fill jobs with out-of-staters, there will be even more unfilled jobs.

I find it hard to believe that they really cant fill the jobs with VTers or people who are willing to relocate if they incentivize it. They should at least have a quota of how many VT residents they hire before turning to remote only.

 

[kbroderick]

I have no idea why, but I've seen a bunch of posts showing lately in my Facebook feed about a bunch of VT government workers (or more specifically their union) being vocally opposed to the recent return to office directive for state workers. Apparently a good number of VT state workers moved out of state (or were hired remotely during covid). So VT tax dollars are paying people that don't live in the state and in many cases don't provide any income to any state businesses. Very interesting. (Note I'm not saying living in state should be a requirement...just saying it is another example of VT money leaving the state).

I don't know how many are out-of-state, but a whole lot are not within reasonable commuting distance of where they are now being told to go to the office. One of the big examples: the state unloaded their Burlington office space (which, IMO, was a good idea—that's pricey real estate for state government) but now the employees who used to go to that office are being told to commute to Waterbury.

I totally get wanting state employees to be in-state, but not allowing people who have successfully been working remotely for five years to continue doing so is stupid and likely detrimental to a lot of smaller towns—how many of those remote workers are living in places in Vermont that they otherwise wouldn't be able to, due to a lack of local career opportunities?

And that's the intent, IMO, of the remote-worker incentives—get more dollars into communities that don't have the economic engine to do it, hoping that remote workers will settle in places that aren't seeing economic development and support local stores and such. I suspect that part was a bit short-sighted and they ended up just increasing pressure on mountain towns that were already struggling with out-of-state dollars competing for real estate.

 

[cdskier]

I don't know how many are out-of-state, but a whole lot are not within reasonable commuting distance of where they are now being told to go to the office. One of the big examples: the state unloaded their Burlington office space (which, IMO, was a good idea—that's pricey real estate for state government) but now the employees who used to go to that office are being told to commute to Waterbury.

I totally get wanting state employees to be in-state, but not allowing people who have successfully been working remotely for five years to continue doing so is stupid and likely detrimental to a lot of smaller towns—how many of those remote workers are living in places in Vermont that they otherwise wouldn't be able to, due to a lack of local career opportunities?

And that's the intent, IMO, of the remote-worker incentives—get more dollars into communities that don't have the economic engine to do it, hoping that remote workers will settle in places that aren't seeing economic development and support local stores and such. I suspect that part was a bit short-sighted and they ended up just increasing pressure on mountain towns that were already struggling with out-of-state dollars competing for real estate.

I get what you're saying, but the Burlington to Waterbury commute doesn't get any sympathy from me as an argument. That's not much compared to what people in many metro areas deal with. And that's about the same as my current commute (and about half of my commute for the past 19 years before my office moved recently a bit closer to where I live).

And don't get me wrong, I'm a big supporter of remote work for jobs where it makes sense. I think most return to office mandates are silly and short-sighted. My company did it. So now I sit in the office 2 days a week on conference calls all day with people that mostly aren't in my office (and in January that moves to 3 days a week that I get to do that). Being in the office simply for the sake of being in the office is pretty dumb in my book.

And to your last argument about intent of remote-incentives, it makes sense, but at the same time, allowing people to be remote from other states defeats that purpose entirely and provides no benefit what-so-ever to local rural VT communities. Even 5-10% being out of state is substantial. That seemed to be about the number voicing that specific concern about why the new mandate would be a challenge for them in the results of an internal survey VSEA did of their members that they posted online recently. So you need to find the right balance somehow. If I was making the decision, I'd probably say remote work is fine for jobs where it makes sense as long as you physically are still living in VT (unless it was something highly specialized where you really couldn't find anyone in VT to do it).

 

[1dog]

State employment is around 7K-8K, only one larger is UVM, ( which generates no property tax in general) but the employees do provide taxes in meals, fuel, income, and sales taxes)
I wonder how many of them are remote? Think KB said it- if you're being productive, what does it matter where you are? It's everyone seeing everyone else and asking ' why can't I do that?' Envy. Could be worse- in MA , they are trying to ( or may have already) passed a bill where employers must reveal everyones salary to everyone else. Oh, I can see that working out well.
The 15 year fed-free-money rates ( when inflation is figured in) has wrecked affordability and now forcing higher wages is only gonna fuel inflation. AI is going to be more sought after than ever as a hedge against rising wages.
When asked Chat lists manufacturing, healthcare, tourism, agriculture,, and education as the largest 5 industries in VT.

I wonder how many remote workers are in VT from outside employers- bet it offsets the above discussion.

 

[AdironRider]

When you are paying people with tax dollars it changes the equation. I don’t think it’s that unreasonable for a government employee to be expected to live within the jurisdiction that is paying them. Let’s be real here, there is a certain element of economic stimulus vs absolute necessity of the given job that comes from government employment and it shouldn’t be just sent elsewhere. The property owners, etc that are paying the taxes that fund those jobs sort of expect those dollars to filter through their own communities to a certain extent.

 

[Lotso]

I’m skinning up tonight to get in my first turns of the season. I’ll report back on how conditions are looking.

How was it?

 

[MrGlen]

How was it?

It was great, did a lap on jester and organgrinder. Had to walk past heavens gate. I guess you could call that one day on the reserve pass.

 

[thetrailboss]

It was great, did a lap on jester and organgrinder. Had to walk past heavens gate. I guess you could call that one day on the reserve pass.

Exactly. You got “early access” privileges.