The "Sugarbush Thread"

[Zermatt]

The area contained by resort boundaries is by definition skiable acreage for resorts that have an all woods skiing policy. Jackson is a tall triangle, whereas Sugarbush is a wide rectangle. I'm pretty sure Jackson has contained areas that are not skiable, what's your point? I'd guess Sugarbush pumps more water up the hill in a season than Jackson as well, but neither marketing factoid changes the obvious and significant differences that exist between the two.

The point, Sugarbush has nowhere near 4000 acres of skiable terrain. Jackson Hole has every bit of 2500 acres of skiable terrain, conservatively.

 

[Hawk]

Today was pretty awesome again but where did all the people go. No lines at all. Looks like IKON skiers only ski Saturdays. LOL
So the plan today was to go to very obscure places in search of Powder snow. But that got canned when we discovered.......there were places not so off the beaten path that were untracked. Again faith restored. Also met two different 2 skier pairs at the slidebrook bus that are long time SB skiers that ski basically the same places we do. have never met them before. After conversations and a few laughs we went our separate ways. Really nice like minded people. Another faith restored moment. I really love this place.

 

[Slidebrook87]

Enough Snow: yes
Above 5 degrees: yes
Little wind: yes

What’s going on here??


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[deadheadskier]

The bigger question is why would they run it? It's a Monday following a holiday period. Peak season is over. The mountain will be quiet today.

It honestly probably only makes fiscal sense to run it weekends for a few more weeks and that's it. You want investment in snowmaking, lift and lodge infrastructure or new trails? That doesn't happen if you waste money operationally.

The number of M-F skiers this time of year who will be upset that SB is closed is inconsequential.

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[Slidebrook87]

The bigger question is why would they run it? It's a Monday following a holiday period. Peak season is over. The mountain will be quiet today.

It honestly probably only makes fiscal sense to run it weekends for a few more weeks and that's it. You want investment in snowmaking, lift and lodge infrastructure or new trails? That doesn't happen if you waste money operationally.

The number of M-F skiers this time of year who will be upset that SB is closed is inconsequential.

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Then how come it has always run midweek since around 2016?? If you run it only on weekends the thing will only run about 12-16 days per year which unless it’s a backup lift, just isn’t sustainable. Win realized how little it ran and tried to improve it by running it midweek. People appreciate it midweek too. I’m almost certain that the reason for the closure was not because of the crowds as it has been known to run M-F whenever the list of things they want to have in order to run it is met.


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[deadheadskier]

Time of year. It's March. The number of midweek skiers nosedives after February break unless it's a powder day. I didn't say close it M-F all season, but off peak? Yes, it makes fiscal sense to close it M-F.

If I were running the show I would aim to operate SB 7 days a week from XMas through end of February provided the weather and snowpack permits. Then from there, weekends only until Mt Ellen closes.

Now is the time of year to preserve profits to carry you through the off season and help fund summer capital projects. That means lift closures and reduced F&B operations midweek.

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[Hawk]

I think things have changed. We have a new owner. I would speculate that there are bigger or different priorities now. You just can't say, well they did it in the past so it should be the same now. Things change and inevitably there will be things that we all will not like. But there will also be things we do like. Honestly I still have not rode the SB lift this year so it's lost on me.

 

[bdfreetuna]

I've never been to SB when Slidebrook was open. Generally a mid week skier.

So then the concept of an "all mountain" pass at SB midweek is a little misleading, unless you want to shuttle around.

Days that SB doesn't run should have a lower Lincoln Peak only pass price... why pay for what you can't realistically ski

 

[Slidebrook87]

I think things have changed. We have a new owner. I would speculate that there are bigger or different priorities now. You just can't say, well they did it in the past so it should be the same now. Things change and inevitably there will be things that we all will not like. But there will also be things we do like. Honestly I still have not rode the SB lift this year so it's lost on me.

Just curious, why wouldn’t you ride it. Wouldn’t you rather ski your favorite trails/woods at both sides each day? I would rather ski Spillsville and Semi Tough in the same day rather than just one of those.


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[cdskier]

Little wind: yes

Well NL at LP is on wind hold right now per the report, so I don't know that's necessarily true that there's little wind. However as you already pointed out they planned this closure yesterday, so I doubt wind is the reason (although may have closed it anyway even if it was scheduled today).

I am a bit curious too on the reason for the closure, but I'm not there so don't really care quite that much. I'm sure SB has a reason. And they really don't need to explain every single operational decision to us. We're a bit spoiled that Win has been so active over the years as a participant here to give us a lot of details. Most resorts don't have that type of interaction and "insider info" shared.

 

[Hawk]

I can understand your point but I will offer this. Last Friday was an example of why the all mountain pass was key. I was there for the powder day. Everything started out OK at 9 until they stated closing lifts. First HG then CR and finally NL. At that point it was Bravo and Gate house which got all tracked and beat down. A quick hop on the bus and Bang, back in business. Mt Ellen was fully open. The winds effect both areas totally different and it is a great benefit when the weather is challenging.

 

[cdskier]

I've never been to SB when Slidebrook was open. Generally a mid week skier.

So then the concept of an "all mountain" pass at SB midweek is a little misleading, unless you want to shuttle around.

Days that SB doesn't run should have a lower Lincoln Peak only pass price... why pay for what you can't realistically ski

You must just have had bad luck. I've been there dozens of midweek days over the years where it has been running and only a few where it hasn't been.

However saying LP should be discounted when SB isn't running is a stretch. You can absolutely "realistically" ski both on the same day without Slidebrook running. K's ticket includes access to Pico (which isn't connected via a lift any day of the week). Yet they don't lower their price further on the days when Pico isn't even open at all.

 

[tumbler]

You can ski both mountains easily in the same day by taking the bus. And the bus has longer operating hours than the lift.

Great skiing this weekend, Saturday was awesome. Sunday was moving slow after apres into the Grift. Good times.

 

[Hawk]

I do ski both mountains in the same day. I just ski the slidebrook area down to the bus and in about 5 minutes I am at Ellen skiing those trails. Also consider this. You have to take the Gatehouse lift, then the slidebrook lift, then the North ridge. Usually by that time I am cold and sick of being on lifts. The way I do it I have a great run all by myself, the bus comes every 30 minutes so if you time it right it is a 5 minute wait, a warm 5 minute bus ride and then straight onto GMX. I enjoy that way more.

 

[cdskier]

Just curious, why wouldn’t you ride it. Wouldn’t you rather ski your favorite trails/woods at both sides each day? I would rather ski Spillsville and Semi Tough in the same day rather than just one of those.

Honestly I've only taken it once or twice so far this season. LP and ME each have more terrain than I can realistically ski in a day. There needs to be a compelling reason to make me switch between the two once I start at one mountain (i.e. crowds, lift holds, or not liking conditions for some reason and thinking maybe the other mountain will be different).

This weekend I was at LP the whole time and was just having too much fun to even think about taking time to get over to ME (and I still missed a few things at LP that I would have liked to have skied there).

 

[bdfreetuna]

I've never been to Sugarbush South and thought "this is boring I need another mountain". Although as Hawk points out its perfectly reasonable to do so, given the opportunity.

It would certainly be more customer oriented to offer a Sugarbush South only ticket though. Current pricing scheme seems like a "Mount Ellen tax" for people that have no intention of skiing it on any given day.

 

[jaybird]

I can understand your point but I will offer this. Last Friday was an example of why the all mountain pass was key. I was there for the powder day. Everything started out OK at 9 until they stated closing lifts. First HG then CR and finally NL. At that point it was Bravo and Gate house which got all tracked and beat down. A quick hop on the bus and Bang, back in business. Mt Ellen was fully open. The winds effect both areas totally different and it is a great benefit when the weather is challenging.

The bus is absolutely the best option between bases .. and especially on a windy day like last Friday. Interestingly, we didn't find the snow at LP that 'beaten down' although the woods bump lines did get a tad gnarly.

 

[deadheadskier]

I've never been to Sugarbush South and thought "this is boring I need another mountain". Although as Hawk points out its perfectly reasonable to do so, given the opportunity.

It would certainly be more customer oriented to offer a Sugarbush South only ticket though. Current pricing scheme seems like a "Mount Ellen tax" for people that have no intention of skiing it on any given day.

Do you feel the same way about Killington/Pico?

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[cdskier]

It would certainly be more customer oriented to offer a Sugarbush South only ticket though. Current pricing scheme seems like a "Mount Ellen tax" for people that have no intention of skiing it on any given day.

Mathematically speaking, if you compare the amount of terrain at each and use ME's day ticket price as the basis to create an "LP only" ticket, then LP should actually be priced right around where it is today for an "LP-only" ticket. (ME has somewhere around 35-40% of SB's terrain while LP has 60-65%). From that perspective, you could say you're actually getting ME as a "free bonus" when you buy an LP ticket today.

 

[bdfreetuna]

Do you feel the same way about Killington/Pico?

It's marketed a little differently, as in "Your Killington Pass is also good at Pico Mountain!", which implies it's a free bonus if you choose to take it. (re: cdskier)

Both resorts seem to be using their multiple mountains as a reason to have among the highest ticket prices in the East, but it's not actually justified for the large majority who won't bother switching mountains mid-day. (yes they are still very large resorts even without their satellite areas)

Don't have "strong feelings" on the matter -- I only ski either of these mountains anymore on promo passes. Just pointing out what seems right + fair.

Was there ever a time when LP only, ME only, and "North/South" tickets were offered simultaneously?