Yea...there's little excuse for not updating the website the same time the e-mail went out saying they would be delaying the opening date.
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The "Sugarbush Thread"
- Thread starter thetrailboss
- Start date
KustyTheKlown
Well-known member
They also had a glaring typo in the website snow report all week
That has happened to me quite a few times. Usually reopening the app "fixes" it. Sometimes you go to the webcam section in the app and you'll get an error saying "configfile not found" as well or something like that too. Extremely buggy.
Damn...I hadn't looked at them today until now. Now that the natural that fell has nearly disappeared it makes it much easier to see how much is still needed. Even DS just below Allyn's looks like it has quite a ways to go yet.
Hawk
Well-known member
Looks at the camera this afternoon, they were not even close. That system just has no balls whatsoever. Oh well.
De ja vu all over again.
seeing how little snow they blew, why did they even bother? They knew last week that we would have this warm up, so unless they were factorIng in the warmth, I just don’t get the logic of spending money to blow snow that is only going to melt away to nothing after a day of warm weather. we are only seeing what is visible from the 2 cams,… although I doubt there are huge whales that are out of view.
Temps were much better above Allyns...so I bet there are some decent whales higher up on Jester and OG. DS though is a tough call. Everything they blew isn't going to melt. And the temperature forecasts aren't always entirely accurate. Just a few degrees can make a big difference. If they hadn't tried to make any snow on DS, people would be complaining about that. I think they made the right call. The weather just didn't cooperate.
These early snowmaking discussions are indeed “deja vu all over again“. I don’t plan to post a lot or offer opinions But I might occasionally attempt to clarify some things based on my experience these past 20 years. I am available to advise Sugarbush if asked if asked but am not part of any management meetings, don‘t attend snow plan and don’t see the daily weather report Sugarbush receives which forecasts important details such as temperatures, humidity, wind, snow. That said here are a few thoughts.
Sugarbush has and I suspect will continue to turn snowmaking on immediately after the meter is read in the first days of November and temperatures allow. As many of you know, it is not just the ambient temperature that matters. Humidity is a big factor and one looks at what is called the wet-bulb temperature. The lower the humidity the lower the wet-bulb and better for both quality and quantity of snowmaking. It is very inefficient making snow above 28 degrees wb, and it really only starts to get efficient below 25wb. Snowmakers loved it in the the low teens. As you can observe there can be a 10 degree or more difference between summit and base and this time of year we can also experience inversions when base temps are higher than summit temps. Thus, each day a snow plan meeting is held and based on the forecast the next 24 hour plan is put into place. But audibles often have to be called on a moments notice when reality becomes different than reality.
Because Killington is making snow for an FIS event and racers love “ice” they will push the limit even is the snow is glop. Doing that on other trails can create lousy condition that last all season. I would also add as many of you know it is best to let the whales sit for 48 hours to drain. It makes for much better conditions.
The new low efficient equipment means that only compressor is needed at both LP and ME. In the past the mountain was short of air, now the limitation is the amount of water that can be moved those the pipes. LP will peak around 3,800-4,000 gallons per minute (GMP) while ME‘s peak is around 2,500. Elevation can make a difference too as more pressure is required the higher you go. It takes approximately 180,000 gallons of water to make one acre foot of snow. Sugarbush‘s plan has been and I think still is to try to feet three feet of snow out down before moving on. That creates sufficient depth to do and continue to groom well. Take a trail like Inverness which is twenty five acres. That requires 13.5 million gallons.
We had a long-term plan to increase the snowmaking capacity at LP to get more water through the system, but this is a multi-year permitting process and a very large investment. I have not heard anything that this has changed.
There was a comment about wasting energy in marginal temps. Once a compressor is turned on it is the same cost whether one gun is one or 75 are. Guns may run at the summit and halfway down Organgrinder for example but may not be able to go lower. It makes sense to do that because when temps fall the top can be finished and you can continue marching down the slope.
It looks like snowmaking resumed overnight on the lower portions of Jester and Downs and maybe lower Organgrinder (but the app is not showing accurate temps so I am really guessing having coffee over in East Warren). The big issue is going to be wants happens on later Sunday and Monday. It looks like a good window of opportunity until then.
Hope this was useful. My skis are tuned and I am eager to get out and see you all,on the slopes.
Sugarbush has and I suspect will continue to turn snowmaking on immediately after the meter is read in the first days of November and temperatures allow. As many of you know, it is not just the ambient temperature that matters. Humidity is a big factor and one looks at what is called the wet-bulb temperature. The lower the humidity the lower the wet-bulb and better for both quality and quantity of snowmaking. It is very inefficient making snow above 28 degrees wb, and it really only starts to get efficient below 25wb. Snowmakers loved it in the the low teens. As you can observe there can be a 10 degree or more difference between summit and base and this time of year we can also experience inversions when base temps are higher than summit temps. Thus, each day a snow plan meeting is held and based on the forecast the next 24 hour plan is put into place. But audibles often have to be called on a moments notice when reality becomes different than reality.
Because Killington is making snow for an FIS event and racers love “ice” they will push the limit even is the snow is glop. Doing that on other trails can create lousy condition that last all season. I would also add as many of you know it is best to let the whales sit for 48 hours to drain. It makes for much better conditions.
The new low efficient equipment means that only compressor is needed at both LP and ME. In the past the mountain was short of air, now the limitation is the amount of water that can be moved those the pipes. LP will peak around 3,800-4,000 gallons per minute (GMP) while ME‘s peak is around 2,500. Elevation can make a difference too as more pressure is required the higher you go. It takes approximately 180,000 gallons of water to make one acre foot of snow. Sugarbush‘s plan has been and I think still is to try to feet three feet of snow out down before moving on. That creates sufficient depth to do and continue to groom well. Take a trail like Inverness which is twenty five acres. That requires 13.5 million gallons.
We had a long-term plan to increase the snowmaking capacity at LP to get more water through the system, but this is a multi-year permitting process and a very large investment. I have not heard anything that this has changed.
There was a comment about wasting energy in marginal temps. Once a compressor is turned on it is the same cost whether one gun is one or 75 are. Guns may run at the summit and halfway down Organgrinder for example but may not be able to go lower. It makes sense to do that because when temps fall the top can be finished and you can continue marching down the slope.
It looks like snowmaking resumed overnight on the lower portions of Jester and Downs and maybe lower Organgrinder (but the app is not showing accurate temps so I am really guessing having coffee over in East Warren). The big issue is going to be wants happens on later Sunday and Monday. It looks like a good window of opportunity until then.
Hope this was useful. My skis are tuned and I am eager to get out and see you all,on the slopes.
Last edited:
LasersInTheTaiga
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"It takes approximately 180,000 gallons of water to make one cubic foot of snow." What.
HA HA. Good catch. Should have waiting to second cup of coffee. One word missing. it is 180,000 per acre foot. One Acre one foot deep. As I recall Upper Snowball/Spring Fling is 15-18 acres so that can get done running at 3,800 gmp in about 2 -21/2 days. If temps are in the 20s it will take longer."It takes approximately 180,000 gallons of water to make one cubic foot of snow." What.
Last edited:
Kingslug20
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43500 sq ft in an acre...thats a lot of snow if you look at it that way.
KustyTheKlown
Well-known member
blowing on allyns and heavens gate cams again. wonder if they are shooting for sunday? I'm gonna do a day trip to killington tomorrow just to get my legs under me
LasersInTheTaiga
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I was almost about to swear off skiing anywhere that makes snow ever again
The quote below is from the Egan article. It's the kind of journalism that I despise. Put numbers to the quote...don't use the words many or most.
"Regardless of the reason, Egan's firing has led many longtime Sugarbush skiers and riders to reconsider whether they'll buy Alterra's season passes this winter. Many Sugarbush employees resigned in protest, including veteran lift mechanics and most instructors in the resort's elite ski programs."
"Regardless of the reason, Egan's firing has led many longtime Sugarbush skiers and riders to reconsider whether they'll buy Alterra's season passes this winter. Many Sugarbush employees resigned in protest, including veteran lift mechanics and most instructors in the resort's elite ski programs."
jimmywilson69
Well-known member
Is that true or is it conjecture?
I have no idea, but how many "longtime sugarbush skiers and riders" do we believe that the author talked to? Five at most? Or did they talk to one who said, many of my friends are pissed. And then they write the line "many longtime sugarbush skiers and riders" It's embarrassingly bad journalism that's designed to stoke anger and division which leads to clicks on the internet.
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