The "Sugarbush Thread"

[Slidebrook87]

95% of LBO work was at South. The only work that was done at North was moving GMX to Northridge and installing the Slug. No snowmaking work, it already had almost 90% coverage. The huge focus was at South. Hard to believe a mountain of that size had such a feeble snowmaking system.

Correct, the main reason for this was because Claneil invested heavily in North in 1990 and improved the snowmaking. They also put in the original Green Mountain Express (now North Ridge) as well as Inverness and Summit. This ownership seemed to prioritize Ellen over Lincoln. Lincoln at the time had aging, slow lifts and a poor snowmaking system. Then Otten came in and invested a shit ton of money into lift and snowmaking improvements which Win all inherited when he bought the place for close to what Otten payed for it. I still find it astonishing that in LBO’s first year of ownership 6 lift projects AND snowmaking improvements were all done in one year. Crazy.

 

[Powder Whore]

Exterminator used to have glades and when they installed snowmaking they cut the trees down. Niot sure about the year. Fis traditionally hosted the turkey tumble - a pretty good bump contest on thanks giving. On many years Fis had snowmaking on the slope around the ski and skate sale mid November. Mt Ellen was electric in those days and the vibe was so positive. The decks on all the lodges had great barbecues and the beer was flowing from kegs. It was the place to be early and late season. The bump skiing and skill level of the skiers was fun to be part of. Sking Fis to cliffs in the spring with vw sized bumps into late April and May was a given. Even though the snow making was limited they added air to the snow and it was better than the snow thirty years later. Go figure - cheap energy and archaic snow guns with loud compressors made snow that was pretty good.

ME is still the place to be imo.

 

[mikec142]

ME is still the place to be imo.

It's funny. I guess that I'm just so used to LP. I would say that 75%+ of my time is spent at LP. Whenever I'm at ME, I'm very happy. Guess I need to just give it more chances.

There are a few simple reasons for it. First, I'm much more familiar with LP. Second, pre-Covid, when my non-skiing wife would join us, it's more comfortable for her to chill in the lodge at LP. Third, it takes a bit of effort to get back and forth. Especially in this environment.

 

[mikec142]

I know the webcams are low priority. And I understand why SB doesn't want to show the new lift lines. But, I do love checking them out and watching what I'm missing while stuck at the office.

So...help a brother out. Give me something to look forward to and make me smile.

 

[mikec142]

Getting back to Mount Ellen for a second: what are the natural snow only trails there?

 

[Hastur]

Anyone rent a Cabana yet? I need a Cabana trip report.

 

[cdskier]

Getting back to Mount Ellen for a second: what are the natural snow only trails there?

There's quite a few...

Black Diamond, Exterminator, Bravo, Hammerhead, Tumbler, Lower FIS, Walt's, Semi-Tough, Encore, Upper Looking Good

 

[thetrailboss]

There's quite a few...

Black Diamond, Exterminator, Bravo, Hammerhead, Tumbler, Lower FIS, Walt's, Semi-Tough, Encore, Upper Looking Good

Unless something has changed, Bravo and Exterminator at least "technically" had snowmaking. That said, the latest trail map does not have a snowmaking symbol for either of these trails. Did they remove pipe?

 

[cdskier]

Unless something has changed, Bravo and Exterminator at least "technically" had snowmaking. That said, the latest trail map does not have a snowmaking symbol for either of these trails. Did they remove pipe?

Hah. I almost put an * next to Exterminator. Technically it has snow-making capability, but it has to have been at least 10 years now since they last blew anything on it so for all intents and purposes you can consider it a natural trail. Bravo if memory serves me correct they used to make snow on by pulling hoses from an adjacent trail, so while snow was made on it in the past (again at least 10+ years ago now), it doesn't actually have snowmaking itself (unless it has 1 or 2 hydrants somewhere near the top that I'm forgetting about).

 

[Powder Whore]

It's funny. I guess that I'm just so used to LP. I would say that 75%+ of my time is spent at LP. Whenever I'm at ME, I'm very happy. Guess I need to just give it more chances.

There are a few simple reasons for it. First, I'm much more familiar with LP. Second, pre-Covid, when my non-skiing wife would join us, it's more comfortable for her to chill in the lodge at LP. Third, it takes a bit of effort to get back and forth. Especially in this environment.

It’s certainly nice to have the option. You could always hop on the Slidebrook chair. ( conditions permitting).

 

[thetrailboss]

Hah. I almost put an * next to Exterminator. Technically it has snow-making capability, but it has to have been at least 10 years now since they last blew anything on it so for all intents and purposes you can consider it a natural trail. Bravo if memory serves me correct they used to make snow on by pulling hoses from an adjacent trail, so while snow was made on it in the past (again at least 10+ years ago now), it doesn't actually have snowmaking itself (unless it has 1 or 2 hydrants somewhere near the top that I'm forgetting about).

Yeah, it's weird that both lost their "*'s" in around 2018.

I think the last season I skied there, 2010-2011, they did make snow on Exterminator.

Yes, they had limited snowmaking on Bravo. They had a pipe spur that ran to the headwall area. There were one or two hydrants there IIRC. I also saw them drag hoses from time to time, but that is now going on a decade ago (wow, time flies).

It's also interesting how they had a dedicated snowmaking line for Way Back. I can remember 2002-2003 when they opened the Summit Quad area early season and used Way Back to allow skiers to return to the Summit Quad. It's too bad that they don't do that anymore.

 

[cdskier]

Yeah, it's weird that both lost their "*'s" in around 2018.

Agree that Ext lost the snowmaking symbol around 2018 or 2019 (although the pipes are definitely still there), but I can't find a map that ever showed Bravo with the symbol.

 

[mikec142]

It’s certainly nice to have the option. You could always hop on the Slidebrook chair. ( conditions permitting).

The option to ski both is great for sure. The SB chair is awesome. Unfortunately, it needs the right conditions to run. The Mad Bus is fine too, but I'm not doing that in today's environment.

Don't get me wrong...I'm not complaining. I'm lamenting the fact that I'm often too content to make the effort to get to ME.

Another factor for me is that I'm now an Ikon Pass holder and for several years before that I would buy tons of quad packs. So as of a couple of years ago, I never felt the need to save a few bucks by buying an ME only ticket. Although, for those who don't have a pass, it's a great option.

 

[thetrailboss]

Correct, the main reason for this was because Claneil invested heavily in North in 1990 and improved the snowmaking. They also put in the original Green Mountain Express (now North Ridge) as well as Inverness and Summit. This ownership seemed to prioritize Ellen over Lincoln. Lincoln at the time had aging, slow lifts and a poor snowmaking system. Then Otten came in and invested a shit ton of money into lift and snowmaking improvements which Win all inherited when he bought the place for close to what Otten payed for it. I still find it astonishing that in LBO’s first year of ownership 6 lift projects AND snowmaking improvements were all done in one year. Crazy.

Well, it's all relative.

Pre LBO there was SOME snowmaking on LP. IIRC they had a York Automated System for Murphy's Glade and parts of Birdland down to Lower Jester. They also had snowmaking on Stein's, Spring Fling, and Ripcord. Additionally, Snowball and parts of Gatehouse had snowmaking. But yes, North was the focus because they could more easily open it earlier in the season and have it be last to close.

LBO invested $28 million in that one season. It was nuts. The lifts were a huge improvement as was the increase in snowmaking. That said, after that one summer, ASC did not have any money left to do much more. Once the hotel was delayed they really cut back. Win (who can speak personally) and his partners inherited a lot of deferred maintenance and a condemned Castlerock Double chair. I also know that over the years we have talked about all the snowmaking pipe that they have replaced because LBO used cheaper grade pipe.

North, in some ways, saw a downgrade under ASC. One now had to ride three lifts to ski the entire mountain. The Snail sucked big time. Their idea was that skiers and riders would ride Slidebrook over from LP and that ME would essentially be another trail pod of sorts. That didn't really work. ASC also moved early and late ops from Ellen to LP.

 

[cdskier]

The option to ski both is great for sure. The SB chair is awesome. Unfortunately, it needs the right conditions to run. The Mad Bus is fine too, but I'm not doing that in today's environment.

Don't get me wrong...I'm not complaining. I'm lamenting the fact that I'm often too content to make the effort to get to ME.

Another factor for me is that I'm now an Ikon Pass holder and for several years before that I would buy tons of quad packs. So as of a couple of years ago, I never felt the need to save a few bucks by buying an ME only ticket. Although, for those who don't have a pass, it's a great option.

I've had a season pass for a while and still ski ME a decent number of days each season. I like the terrain there and generally speaking it also has less people than LP so tends to be a nice choice for Saturdays if LP is crowded.

 

[mikec142]

I've had a season pass for a while and still ski ME a decent number of days each season. I like the terrain there and generally speaking it also has less people than LP so tends to be a nice choice for Saturdays if LP is crowded.

I'm with you. I'm basically using a lot of words to say I'm too lazy and content to make it to ME that often.

Whenever I do, I have a great time. Last season (injury and covid shortened), my favorite run of the season was lapping Exterminator on a January powder day.

 

[Slidebrook87]

The option to ski both is great for sure. The SB chair is awesome. Unfortunately, it needs the right conditions to run. The Mad Bus is fine too, but I'm not doing that in today's environment.

Don't get me wrong...I'm not complaining. I'm lamenting the fact that I'm often too content to make the effort to get to ME.

Another factor for me is that I'm now an Ikon Pass holder and for several years before that I would buy tons of quad packs. So as of a couple of years ago, I never felt the need to save a few bucks by buying an ME only ticket. Although, for those who don't have a pass, it's a great option.

I always try and ski both on a full day, even when SB isn’t running. I just like the variety and how the two sides complement each other in terms of terrain variety. SB definitely makes it easier to get between the two, but COVID wise, the busses haven’t been too crowded this year.

 

[thetrailboss]

Agree that Ext lost the snowmaking symbol around 2018 or 2019 (although the pipes are definitely still there), but I can't find a map that ever showed Bravo with the symbol.

Now that you mention it, I went back through trail maps to 1992 and don't see a "*" for Bravo anywhere. That said, I was pretty sure that I had seen at least one map with such indication on it. I didn't think that it was completely honest as there was literally one or two hydrants,.

 

[thetrailboss]

I always try and ski both on a full day, even when SB isn’t running. I just like the variety and how the two sides complement each other in terms of terrain variety. SB definitely makes it easier to get between the two, but COVID wise, the busses haven’t been too crowded this year.

Another fan of North/Ellen here. I've seen comments made that traffic at LP vs. Ellen is almost 2 to 1. The difference is noticeable with conditions and lift lines. The woods were also much less tracked out.

 

[tumbler]

The used to be snowmaking on Hammerhead, we dragged hoses through the woods from Cliffs, some were 3 hose lengths long! Also went though the woods to hit Upper Looking Good and Brambles. The spur line to the Bravo rock is relatively new, that was another hose drag from Elbow.

I used to be a ME guy only but once I skied LP a lot I like to size, more space to spread out. I still love ME though. Exterm to Tumbler- great run.