Theft of service

[LongStep]

hmmm, reminds me of that "border patrol" thread.....:-D

QFT

 

[C2H5OH]

... that people aren't ripping the resort (and in essence me) off.

Crap, nobody's stealing from you. If resort stinks at checking lift tickets, they are asking for it.

 

[Dr Skimeister]

If resort stinks at checking lift tickets, they are asking for it.

It's sad that people would think like that. I guess because people think that skiing without compensating the owners of the property is OK if the ski area isn't catching everyone that does so is one of the reasons that contribute to the increasing cost of lift tickets.

 

[MichaelJ]

Alta has the RFID cards, but instead of turnstyles they're big hanging dividers with little gate doors between them. It actually works really well, and forces the line to be somewhat orderly. The quad had 5 gates, singles line gets its own gate, and then merges in once inside the gate. We had no problems at all, carried our passes in our pants pockets. Rear pockets.

 

[ccskier]

Alta has the RFID cards, but instead of turnstyles they're big hanging dividers with little gate doors between them. It actually works really well, and forces the line to be somewhat orderly. The quad had 5 gates, singles line gets its own gate, and then merges in once inside the gate. We had no problems at all, carried our passes in our pants pockets. Rear pockets.

I went to Alta, Solitude and Snowbird, all had them. I thought they were a great idea. It realy did improve the line situation. Theft of service is a huge issue. Go online to thestowereporter.com and read the police report, theft of services is the #1 crime in Stowe. The lifties are even compensated for picking people off, $25-$50 I think.

 

[darent]

also skied Alta in march, the RFID lift card you put in a pocket and it worked every time. no flapping ticket on your jacket, no flipping it around to get scanned, and it is reloadable online.

 

[BeanoNYC]

What I want to know is why people are so annoyed about the 5 seconds it takes to scan their lift tickets. If you're not breaking the rules, why give me a hard time? :???:

We missed you at the Bush, Sev.

Meh...I never give anyone a hard time about that. I haven't finished reading other responses but I feel it's a necessary "evil" for ski resorts as there are many vying for a five finger discount. I'm sure they get a lot of data about turnaround time, as well. My relationship with the mountain continues until I leave for the day, so I follow policy.

What drives me nuts is receipt checking at places like Best Buy and Home Depot. I politely refuse and keep walking. Unless they have reason to detain me (Read:They saw me steal something) they have no right to check my receipt. My relationship ended with the store the moment I paid for my goods...but I digress.

 

[JasonE]

I think that a traditional turnstyle (the kind with the three posts that you have to push through) would be fairly difficult to navigate on skis, especially for kids and beginners. However, the new-style sliding-door kind like they have in the Boston subways now would be perfect for a ski area. Frankly, I'd bet at most smaller areas the system would pay for itself in one season. Larger areas with lots of lifts it might take longer, of course. And boy would it be nice not to have to put a ticket on your jacket anymore!

For those who have been to places using these systems: did you have to return the RFID card at the end of the day, or did they give you one-time use cards that you could keep the same way you keep lift tickets? If they were cards you can keep, did they have the resort's logo on them (to make them decent souvenirs)?

 

[dropKickMurphy]

What I want to know is why people are so annoyed about the 5 seconds it takes to scan their lift tickets. If you're not breaking the rules, why give me a hard time? :???:

It does bother me, especially on busy days. Quite a few times, while waiting in a long line, I'll see partially or fully empty chairs going up because the scanners are holding up the line (often due to problems with the scanners needing 3 or 4 tries to get a read).

It seems to me that there are more people checking tickets, and fewer employees supervising the loading areas. I have seen some potentially dangerous situations as busy loading ares become confusing free-for-alls, while several employees are busy scanning tickets.

Look, we get scanned, spied on, patted down forced to walk through metal detectors, etc, so many times these days. Yes, it's often neccessary due to security threats, but it sucks. When I go skiing, I like to think I'm getting away from all that bull$h1t. I enjoy the feeling of freedom, I enjoy the comraderie of conversations with total strangers on the lifts and at the bar. I still leave my skies unlocked and unattended in the racks, as do the vast majority of other skiers. I've never been ripped off, nor have any of my friends. The fact is, there's a level of trust that I find among skiers (and even snowboarders); a level of trust that doesn't extend into most other areas of my life. That's because people who enjoy sliding down mountains are, almost universally, good people who are just trying to have a good time.

And that is what I resent most about these scanners. I resent the lack of trust that is implied between the resort and the customer.

And I really don't believe that this practice is cost effective for the resorts. They have to pay salaries for these armies of scanners. So, they occasionally catch a cheat? Great. But I bet very few of them end up turning around and buying a ticket after they're caught.

I wonder if the resorts give any consideration to the fact that their policies may actually be driving some paying customers away. I can tell you that there were 2 ski areas last year where I found the scanning policy to be so intrusive as to significantly impact my experience. I have not returned to either of them, nor do I intend to. More and more, I am basing my choice on where to ski on the level of customer service. Ski areas that use more of their employees to provide service that makes my day more enjoyable are the ones that are getting my dollars.

 

[ERJ-145CA]

When I was at Camelback on Tuesday I got my free ticket at the welcome center for having a season pass at another resort. Their printer only printed the top two thirds of the date, so on one occasion I had to explain to the lifty, after he stopped me to examine my ticket, that their printer was jacked up. It wasted about 2 minutes of my time but I had no problem after that. I can't complain too much though because it was free. They seemed to be pretty vigilant at Camelback.

 

[ERJ-145CA]

I wonder if the resorts give any consideration to the fact that their policies may actually be driving some paying customers away. I can tell you that there were 2 ski areas last year where I found the scanning policy to be so intrusive as to significantly impact my experience. I have not returned to either of them, nor do I intend to. More and more, I am basing my choice on where to ski on the level of customer service. Ski areas that use more of their employees to provide service that makes my day more enjoyable are the ones that are getting my dollars.

The one day I went to Mountain Creek this season they had to scan my ticket everytime that I got to the gondola. Not only did I have to take my skis off to use that god forsaken lift but then I had to be scanned after every 2 minute run. It was pretty annoying, and another reason not to go there.

 

[snoseek]

Those rfid cards you guy are talking about are pretty easy to pick up cheap in the solitude lot around noon or so. How can they really stop this?

 

[JD]

Theft of service has never really been a problem for me. You just can't abuse it.
Us the force like OB-1...."you don't need to see our Identification...."

 

[OppositeGeorge]

I always assumed the scanning data got fed into a database that the resort could use for marketing (how many runs does the average guest take? How many people does the lift host? When are the busy times, where? Who is skiing, when? etc...)

If they're just doing it for validation, what is the advantage to just doing a visual check? Seems kinda dumb to have to go through all that and not do something with the data.

 

[MichaelJ]

For those who have been to places using these systems: did you have to return the RFID card at the end of the day, or did they give you one-time use cards that you could keep the same way you keep lift tickets? If they were cards you can keep, did they have the resort's logo on them (to make them decent souvenirs)?

No, no, and yes!

For Alta's you pay an extra $5 the first time and then you keep the card. Next time you want to ski you reload that card, either at the ticket window or, and this is so cool, online. In fact, you can even preload a multi-day (which is cheaper than individual days) in advance, then when you get there just head directly to the lifts.

 

[severine]

We missed you at the Bush, Sev.

Nice to be missed! Next year....

Look, we get scanned, spied on, patted down forced to walk through metal detectors, etc, so many times these days. Yes, it's often neccessary due to security threats, but it sucks. When I go skiing, I like to think I'm getting away from all that bull$h1t. I enjoy the feeling of freedom, I enjoy the comraderie of conversations with total strangers on the lifts and at the bar. I still leave my skies unlocked and unattended in the racks, as do the vast majority of other skiers. I've never been ripped off, nor have any of my friends. The fact is, there's a level of trust that I find among skiers (and even snowboarders); a level of trust that doesn't extend into most other areas of my life. That's because people who enjoy sliding down mountains are, almost universally, good people who are just trying to have a good time.

And that is what I resent most about these scanners. I resent the lack of trust that is implied between the resort and the customer.

And I really don't believe that this practice is cost effective for the resorts. They have to pay salaries for these armies of scanners. So, they occasionally catch a cheat? Great. But I bet very few of them end up turning around and buying a ticket after they're caught.

I wonder if the resorts give any consideration to the fact that their policies may actually be driving some paying customers away. I can tell you that there were 2 ski areas last year where I found the scanning policy to be so intrusive as to significantly impact my experience. I have not returned to either of them, nor do I intend to. More and more, I am basing my choice on where to ski on the level of customer service. Ski areas that use more of their employees to provide service that makes my day more enjoyable are the ones that are getting my dollars.

Sorry to say, you can't trust anyone these days. Even the small ski hills deal with theft, whether it's of services or people's equipment left unlocked on the racks.

It's also not the occasional culprit, unfortunately.

I'm sorry you've allowed a basic check to influence you so much. I won't comment any further than that.

I always assumed the scanning data got fed into a database that the resort could use for marketing (how many runs does the average guest take? How many people does the lift host? When are the busy times, where? Who is skiing, when? etc...)

If they're just doing it for validation, what is the advantage to just doing a visual check? Seems kinda dumb to have to go through all that and not do something with the data.

I understood the same. It's not just for theft of services; there's a lot of data to be gained from those scans.

No, no, and yes!

For Alta's you pay an extra $5 the first time and then you keep the card. Next time you want to ski you reload that card, either at the ticket window or, and this is so cool, online. In fact, you can even preload a multi-day (which is cheaper than individual days) in advance, then when you get there just head directly to the lifts.

That is a pretty cool system. Better for the environment in a sense, too, since you can reuse your "ticket". I'm not so sure the automatic mechanical way is the way to go, but I do like the reloadable card. There's something about the human element - having somebody you can brag to about your last run (kids love to do this), somebody to ask questions of instead of having to seek an employee out, and just the general human factor.

I know when I was working, I always made it a point to be pleasant and try to make it a positive experience for all. Some people get a power trip from it. Meh. That wasn't for me. I enjoyed the person-to-person contact, especially after being stuck home with a 2 year old and 9 month old all day, every day.

I guess we all get our panties in a bunch over something.

 

[o3jeff]

With the introduction of the scanners also came the flex ticket. A lot of times I only want to ski a few hours and instead of having to to either be there for the morning or afternoon half day ticket, your ticket now starts whenever you get there.

 

[andyzee]

I first experienced this at Solitude a few years ago and thought it was great. Much more efficient than the scanners and as a result, lines move faster. This year they had it at Alta.

 

[BLESS]

We missed you at the Bush, Sev.

Meh...I never give anyone a hard time about that. I haven't finished reading other responses but I feel it's a necessary "evil" for ski resorts as there are many vying for a five finger discount. I'm sure they get a lot of data about turnaround time, as well. My relationship with the mountain continues until I leave for the day, so I follow policy.

What drives me nuts is receipt checking at places like Best Buy and Home Depot. I politely refuse and keep walking. Unless they have reason to detain me (Read:They saw me steal something) they have no right to check my receipt. My relationship ended with the store the moment I paid for my goods...but I digress.

i like that you do that at those box stores.....what do the people say when you tell them no?

 

[twinplanx]

i like that you do that at those box stores.....what do the people say when you tell them no?

Yeah thats great man. I do get a little annoyed when clerks ask for my zip code:evil: