Three Lost Sugarloaf Skiers Lose Ski Privileges

[AdironRider]

They hate S&R when it involves idiots that think that rules and ropes don't apply to them.

You realize this could be said about anyone who needs S&R. Seriously man, what is the point of having the organization if you are just going to villift those who need it.

 

[AdironRider]

Yeah, why have a problem with a bunch of idiots going out getting lost and putting the safety of others in jeopardy when they have to go out looking for the idiots at night when its -10 degrees out.

You don't think the S&R guys train for those conditions? You honestly think they just expect it to be a walk in the woods? It is not going to be easy and there are certainly risks involved, but I don't know a single guy on those teams who doesn't recognize, expect, prepare, and work in those conditions. Hell at least half are excited about it.

 

[AdironRider]

These guys clearly knew what they were doing and it went south on them. What should they expect, no restriction? Of course it's gonna cost them something. Rescuing someone who got hurt or something, that's one thing. But having to rescue knowing violators??

How would you feel if I went out in the ocean in a boat with no life vests or map or any electronics to get me back. These guys went over the backside with out proper back country gear (tent and bag and more), no map or plan to get themselves back.

You do not need a tent and sleeping bag to go into the sidecounty. You guys are being absurd.

You guys are all assuming they knew what was up. We've all been skiing before, we all know you can get around ropes incredibly easy. You want to prevent this problem you get rid of ski resorts, period. Otherwise you plan for the inevitable lost skier.

You guys think people should pay for ski patrol rescues on hill when they blow out a knee? Everyone knows the risks (you ski long enough and you will have knee issues eventually) and those ski patrollers cost money and raise ticket prices. This is effectively what you are arguing.

 

[kbroderick]

Did the people you rescued go right past signs and ropes and full knowing decided to do it anyways?

In the case of the rescue I was thinking of that a couple of my friends worked, right by "Ski Area Boundary" signs but not under a rope.

I can see how certain recurring themes (like the Wheelerville Road scenario at K) get old, especially when you go past signs like "<--- Ski area / Long, cold night in woods ---->" to get there. However, I still think that encouraging prompt requests for help is better than encouraging people to wait until a situation threatens life or limb. Particularly with lost skiers who ducked a boundary rope, a few extra hours of daylight could easily make the difference between a small party escorting out a lost skier versus a full-on rescue including hauling someone who can't travel under his* own power out of the woods.

In the case of the recent SL incident, the report is that they spent a couple of hours bushwhacking before calling for help, but still called before 3 p.m. To me, that sounds like a reasonable level of attempting to undo your own f***-up before making the call that you need professional help or things are going to get worse real quick. Yes, it would have been better if they'd been prepared with navigational tools and skins (in which case it would seem they should have been able to skin their own asses out, even if it took a while), but on a scale of "dumb" to "let's steal the 480V line for copper scrap", this seems a lot closer to "dumb" than Darwin.

*: and I say "his", not "his or hers", because while I'm sure it happens, I can't think of an incident I've heard of or read about that wasn't a male.

 

[2Planker]

I never hear about that one. They must have been total idiots. 8-10 hours? it is mostly down hill and there are logging roads that lead you right down to close to the airport and it is only about 1 mile total.

Yes it is mostly downhill, BUT the snowpack was deep, and it was about midnight when they showed up at someones house on the North Rd. This was probably 2004-5 ?? and there was No fine or charges for calling out a 30 person search party due to stupidity. Now there is, and in NH the $$ goes to those of us who get dragged out to look for these idiots

I'll bitch about it every time.... But I will respond whenever asked

 

[Harvey]

...why should the public have to pay for these darwin award winners

That's a slippery slope.

 

[skifree]

That's a slippery slope.

Agree 100%

 

[gregnye]

You do not need a tent and sleeping bag to go into the sidecounty. You guys are being absurd.

I think the biggest problem here is the term "sidecountry". There is no such thing. It's either in bounds or backcountry.

People need to understand that when you leave the resort you should be responsible for your survival, including shovel, probe, beacon, etc.

I also think more people should take an AIRE course. Yes, we don't really have avalanches in the east (besides tucks), but the course really helps you understand how to be prepared for backcountry, and that no, there is no such thing as sidecountry.

 

[Vaughn]

I think the biggest problem here is the term "sidecountry". There is no such thing. It's either in bounds or backcountry.

People need to understand that when you leave the resort you should be responsible for your survival, including shovel, probe, beacon, etc.

I also think more people should take an AIRE course. Yes, we don't really have avalanches in the east (besides tucks), but the course really helps you understand how to be prepared for backcountry, and that no, there is no such thing as sidecountry.

Well, except for in the high country of... Claremont?

https://www.whsv.com/content/news/Avalanche-in-New-Hampshire-heavily-damages-home-504864861.html

 

[AdironRider]

Now you are being absurd. Blowing out a knee does not equate to knowingly going out of bounds. Ski long enough and it'll happen=get rid of ski resorts, in your mind. I've tripped in my own house, should I now get rid of my house? Absurd.

No, I'm saying skiing is inherently dangerous, doesn't matter if you are in bounds or out. You seem to think these guys knew they were going to get lost. No one plans to get lost, just like no one plans to blow out a knee. You pay for the guys who blow out knees with higher priced passes and lift tickets, yet you don't bitch about that scenario but do for S&R. They are no different ultimately and both are guaranteed to happen at any decent ski area. Someone is in trouble, they should get helped. You seem to want to villify and charge people based on your own opinion of their intelligence. Plenty of non-skiers would consider you an idiot if you blew out your knee while skiing, hence the slippery slope comments.

You also think to ski the backcountry you need a tent and sleeping bag which just proves your ignorance on this topic.

 

[AdironRider]

I think the biggest problem here is the term "sidecountry". There is no such thing. It's either in bounds or backcountry.

People need to understand that when you leave the resort you should be responsible for your survival, including shovel, probe, beacon, etc.

I also think more people should take an AIRE course. Yes, we don't really have avalanches in the east (besides tucks), but the course really helps you understand how to be prepared for backcountry, and that no, there is no such thing as sidecountry.

Dude if you can take a lift up to access the goods you are most definitely skiing the sidecountry.

http://www.tetonat.com/2010/04/05/d...tcountry-sidecountry-and-slackcountry-skiing/

I do agree avi courses are well worth it no matter where you ski.

 

[raisingarizona]

You know, you are good at arguing and twisting words. I'll give you that. Let's be clear, I very clearly understand that no one was planning on getting lost, as I am sure everyone else clearly understands. I do see quit a difference in someone who blows out a knee in bounds and someone who disregards signs ropes and warnings and goes ahead anyways. It has nothing to do with anyone's estimation on intelligence. You clearly don't and we'll never agree on that subject.

As far as charging anyone for a rescue, I am of mixed minds on this and I waffle often. I don't know what the right answer is. But I know if and when I were to call for an ambulance and use it, they are getting paid by both me and my insurance company. I don't get charged for police protection should I ever call for it. Fire calls are billing for some services, such as having a bonfire without a permit, and especially so for doing so in a drought. Honestly, I just can't come up with a good answer for S&R. It costs money and no one wants to see people die.

How about telling us what these guys should have brought with them when they went out of bounds? I'd like to compare notes. I'm thinking they would at the very least require, either a map, GPS, or someone who was very familiar with the terrain, or all of the above. Skins and some telemark skis so they can skate on the flats and uphill? What else? Actually, let's remove these guys from the equation, and suppose someone else wants to do the same, what should they do and what should they bring?

They should have brought a plan, knowledge and understanding of the area before proceeding into unfamiliar terrain. You know, like research and stuff, being responsible so you don't get yourself into a pickle and negatively impact a bunch of other people because you're being an idiot.

Beyond that.....a space blanket, matches, snack food, basic first aid stuff, two pairs of gloves, a packable down jacket, the basics. BLS knowledge, basic outdoor first responder skills, maybe like half a f-ing brain.

 

[Hawk]

I think it is simple a this. I personally take full responsibility for my actions. I also take a great amount of pride in knowing where I am skiing, knowing the terrain and preparing myself for any eventuality. So whether is it skins and back country gear, beacons, extra food, GPS, compass, harness, whatever, I have it with me if I plan to go out of bounds. Also I would never ignore signs and ropes and just drop into back country blindly at a resort that I am not familiar with. It is foolish and ignorant. I would expect that would be a basic mode of operation for any skier that would go out of bounds.

Again, I know where these guys went out. It was described to me by a local that was there. There were ropes they went under and posted signs that clearly said "Ski Area Boundary" They were totally stupid and put their lives as risk and other. They get no slack on this, none. Why should they get any benefit of doubt when any logical person would have seen the risk and understood the danger.

This whole cut them some slack thing is such millennial BS.