Tips for Skiing Tight Lines

[riverc0il]

A lot of blah blah blah in this thread. Sorry to call it out but let's be straight up: the only difference between a tight line and an open line is A) the line dictates where you turn as you have few if any options and B) you have no bail option. Tight lines expose fundamental technical flaws, confidence issues, and lack of vision in line choice and dealing with terrain that doesn't allow you to make turns where you want to but rather forces you to make unnatural (to you) turns. How do you get better? First, you need to become better at funky terrain in non-tight lines. Then you take it to the tight. Practice picking a line and sticking with it, forcing your mind and body to not take an easier line, not going off line when you loose your rhthym. Slow it down, work each turn. PRACTICE JUMP TURNS. When a tight line gives you few turn options, turn in the air instead of the snow. Tight and steep chutes require jump turns and tight turns. Practice the tools you need in tight lines out side of those tight lines, take challenging lines and don't pussy out or deviate when things get tough. REPEAT.

 

[SIKSKIER]

+1

 

[kingdom-tele]

PRACTICE JUMP TURNS.

doesn't get much more unstable than throwing yourself in the air.

be interesting to watch someone jump and twist with a stable pelvis

 

[MadMadWorld]

doesn't get much more unstable than throwing yourself in the air.

be interesting to watch someone jump and twist with a stable pelvis

I thought the pivot turn and jump turn were two mutually exclusive things. The end result is the same but the body actions are different. Just my two cents.

 

[MadMadWorld]

A lot of blah blah blah in this thread. Sorry to call it out but let's be straight up: the only difference between a tight line and an open line is A) the line dictates where you turn as you have few if any options and B) you have no bail option. Tight lines expose fundamental technical flaws, confidence issues, and lack of vision in line choice and dealing with terrain that doesn't allow you to make turns where you want to but rather forces you to make unnatural (to you) turns. How do you get better? First, you need to become better at funky terrain in non-tight lines. Then you take it to the tight. Practice picking a line and sticking with it, forcing your mind and body to not take an easier line, not going off line when you loose your rhthym. Slow it down, work each turn. PRACTICE JUMP TURNS. When a tight line gives you few turn options, turn in the air instead of the snow. Tight and steep chutes require jump turns and tight turns. Practice the tools you need in tight lines out side of those tight lines, take challenging lines and don't pussy out or deviate when things get tough. REPEAT.

I think for me it's been more of a conditioning thing. Lines that I have skied in the past a million times have kicked my ass this year. Thanks for the advice though.

 

[kingdom-tele]

I thought the pivot turn and jump turn were two mutually exclusive things. The end result is the same but the body actions are different. Just my two cents.

truth is no movement is the same as another. there will be redundancy though is the muscles that perform both the pivot and the jump turn. the pivot is the slower jump turn, slow down to sort out our inner conflicts with the movement plan. its funny, you can see even in the demo video which direction the model moves more efficiently. quick turn efficiency=less trunk/spine muscle tension.

 

[Cheese]

Great advice and supporting video Kevin. Watching the video the only thing I would add is to be a bit more diligent about shoulder and hand position. Especially the second skier rotates the shoulders too much and then drops the uphill hand. This can lead to leaning back and also will increase the amount of time for transition from one turn to the next. One fix could be to tap the thumbs together after the pole plant. This helps assure that shoulders are square across the hill, hands are in front and hopefully the weight is forward like it belongs.

Steve's advice is also sound. Just because a black or double black groomer is wide doesn't mean you need to use all of it. Head over to the side and practices quick turns on the side, ridge or even over the edge between the trail, woods and snow making equipment. Linking jump turns on steeps is pretty unforgiving so the more practice you can get where it's not required, the safer you'll learn.

 

[Puck it]

My advice is just turn and avoid the trees at all costs. It works for me.

 

[C-Rex]

I think your ability to view the line properly is huge. As was said before, looking at where you want to go and not at obstacles is very important. The body follows the head and the head follows the eyes. You also have to look far enough ahead of you to give yourself time to process the information. I find when I'm having a hard time it's because I'm not looking far enough ahead. You have to trust yourself to negotiate turns that you spotted 2 or three turns before the one your are currently spotting....if that makes sense.

I also find that if I'm having a hard time riding a certain line the way I'd like to, I go find a harder one and ride that a few times. Even if I'm riding it like a noob, I give it my best and then go back to the original line, and I usually find that I have much more confidence. Sometimes it's just about perspective.

 

[Cheese]

I thought the pivot turn and jump turn were two mutually exclusive things. The end result is the same but the body actions are different. Just my two cents.

I'd say the only difference between the two is the edge angle of the skis and of course their application. A pivot turn is basically multiple skidding hockey stops that will be performed on intermediate terrain. A jump turn should be an immediate stop (no skidding).

In the narrow chute example pivot turns would be linked to proceed down through an intermediate chute. If anything goes wrong, fall and reset. The jump turn will also accomplish the turn in the expert chute but more importantly it is your self arrest. Even if the jump turn didn't go exactly as planned and you wind up sliding slightly or on a hip, those edges need to be hard in the snow to prevent a dangerous slide.

 

[Scruffy]

oh criminy !! you guys are too literal, you pick posts apart for what is both said and what is not said.

Of course it depends on a lot of variables as to what turn you will use, I think that has to go without saying if your even thinking of skiing tight tree lines or chutes. These variables are not limited to: snow pack conditions (i.e. blower pow and breakable crust require different turn techniques ), line, steepness, other geological aspects (rocks), chute or couloir width, tree spacing, run out, your own energy level that day, etc...

There is no one answer. The OP is looking for tips, each one tip is not meant to be the "be all" answer for every situation.
You need to have a lot of tools in your bag.

 

[C-Rex]

oh criminy !! you guys are too literal, you pick posts apart for what is both said and what is not said.

Of course it depends on a lot of variables as to what turn you will use, I think that has to go without saying if your even thinking of skiing tight tree lines or chutes. These variables are not limited to: snow pack conditions (i.e. blower pow and breakable crust require different turn techniques ), line, steepness, other geological aspects (rocks), chute or couloir width, tree spacing, run out, your own energy level that day, etc...

There is no one answer. The OP is looking for tips, each one tip is not meant to be the "be all" answer for every situation.
You need to have a lot of tools in your bag.

Well said! :smash:

 

[bdfreetuna]

Jump turns down tight steeps is the most fun way to ski. I don't think it's a requirement to full stop each jump turn... depends on your comfort level.

I think skiing unconventional and steep terrain it's less about rules and more about how you like to ski and how much you want to push your comfort zone.

There's no reason why taking narrow steeps in a combination of jump turns, smears, tacking several bumps in a line, another smear into in tight line between some trees is any better or worse than another combination of techniques.

For most of us we are only being judged in terms of style points by ourselves anyway.

 

[timm]

Maybe helpful for you or not (and may make sense or not) but something I like to do to practice tight lines is take a groomed trail and early in the day when the groomer tracks are fresh and distinguishable, practice staying within one track width.

Since most actual tight line situations aren't going to be straight down the whole way, I'll do that in combination with looking ahead and planning a line that is stay in track one until this point in the trail, then switch to track two or three (or whatever) and back and forth at different points. This has allowed me to practice on everything from steep black trails to when I am just putzing around on a blue -- also helps you keep your turn time down and maintain good habits on trails where you otherwise might get sloppy because you can get away with it.

 

[jack97]

I think for me it's been more of a conditioning thing. Lines that I have skied in the past a million times have kicked my ass this year.

IMO, new ski technology and groomer technology has made skiers soft. Its easy on the body to carve on the groomers all day with the new skis. And with the demand for groomers, its almost hard to find natural trails.

Look at the jump turn vid.... i think I see a hint of up-unweighting, a no no by todays standard. Yet, when I see someone rocking it old school, they can handle crud and bumps.

 

[Puck it]

New school is great for laying railroads tracks and mandatory GS's, but old school keeps the skis from having independent minds. They each have their place in the world.

 

[jack97]

New school is great for laying railroads tracks and mandatory GS's

Neither is great for making tight lines.

 

[riverc0il]

doesn't get much more unstable than throwing yourself in the air.

be interesting to watch someone jump and twist with a stable pelvis

I feel very much in control during jump turns. More stable than trying to ski over mixed terrain in a tight line with questions snow conditions and variable mounds and bumps. Or for something super steep, how would you recommend skiing something in the 40-50* range without jump turns? Do you have a more stable turn to offer? Maybe unstable as you call it but as long as it is well executed, it is the most controlled type of turn you can execute when footing is suspect, the lines are narrow, and the pitch is steep.

 

[kingdom-tele]

I feel very much in control during jump turns. More stable than trying to ski over mixed terrain in a tight line with questions snow conditions and variable mounds and bumps. Or for something super steep, how would you recommend skiing something in the 40-50* range without jump turns? Do you have a more stable turn to offer? Maybe unstable as you call it but as long as it is well executed, it is the most controlled type of turn you can execute when footing is suspect, the lines are narrow, and the pitch is steep.

your misinterpreting the comment riv. the instability I am referring to is with regard to the stability of our spine and "core", not the turn or terrain management. the video is educating people to try to remain stable, which is misguided advice, I get the direction they are trying to go, the stability is occurring much higher though, like mid thoracic level, it seems like people might be better served to feel where they can become more unstable and figure out their own comfort levels and how they move. drills simply create invariants of more complex motions, why not practice spinal motions too. I don't teach skiing, maybe they do.

jump turns are fun, but if you think about how we do those, the ability to unlock/control your spinal segments is the key feature, the fluidity of the the compression, release, and compression cycle relies on our ability to load the muscle, tissue, etc, its elastic, not bone (well, it is too, but not the same way), if your stable like they are reinforcing in that video, no chance

 

[crank]

Been visiting this thread and finally decided to weigh in. I know, big whoop. Here's the thing, for tight chutes or any kind of sketchy situation a good skier will have a bag to tricks or tools that work for him in that situation. In a tight chute, Staircase Glade at Jay Peak for example, if needed I would be more inclined to go to the jump turn than the pivot slip. In fact I think pivot slips are more dangerous than worthwhile. Why? Because the conditions you will almost certainly encounter in said tight chute will not be smooth or groomed. Better to remove for skis from that surface and whip 'em around then release your edges and swivel because there are a lot of nasty things out there that can stop that swivel in mid swiv. IMO they are something that instructors made up to have something to teach or to drill on. Fine because the do teach edge release and steering a flat ski.

Hey whatever gets you through the chute... for me, I have learned to focus on what I need to do and where I need to turn rather than on what will happen if I don't make a turn and get blown out of the line. Sounds simple, but it took me years to master my fears.