Vail to buy Stowe?

[VTKilarney]

They've always been sandwiched in between Stowe to the north and its lofty reputation and Killington to the south

From a business perspective, touting your place as more "natural" and "least crowded" means that you have lost the race.

I think that Sugarbush will be fine, but I don't think that a business as usual attitude is going to work. If I were Win, I'd be talking to ski areas out west that have had to go head to head with Vail. I'd be looking to form alliances. I'd be thinking long and hard about what my customer base is going to look like and how to go after them. He needs to be proactive about this.

They probably don't have the money, but folding Sugarbush into the Peak Resorts portfolio would make a lot of sense. Having Hunter and Sugarbush on the same pass would appeal to a LOT of New Yorkers. And you've also got the Boston crowd covered with the New Hampshire resorts. But maybe since they already have Mount Snow it would be diminishing returns for Peak.

 

[thetrailboss]

From a business perspective, touting your place as more "natural" and "least crowded" means that you have lost the race.

I think that Sugarbush will be fine, but I don't think that a business as usual attitude is going to work. If I were Win, I'd be talking to ski areas out west that have had to go head to head with Vail. I'd be looking to form alliances. I'd be thinking long and hard about what my customer base is going to look like and how to go after them. He needs to be proactive about this.

In sum, I'd be making a serious pitch to join the Mountain Collective in Stowe's place.

 

[VTKilarney]

In sum, I'd be making a serious pitch to join the Mountain Collective in Stowe's place.

I think the Mountain Collective makes a lot of sense, but it's really only attractive to people that are going to make a trip out west. There are a whole lot of eastern skiers that won't be doing that. So I think that it's a partial answer, but more is needed.

 

[mbedle]

Sugarbush Master Plan.

 

[Jcb890]

View attachment 21966 Sugarbush Master Plan.

That definitely looks much more natural and less crowded. :smile:

 

[rtjcbrown]

What is that long angled building with no label? Just above Mill House/General Store

 

[cdskier]

What's the date on that plan? It doesn't even look like it matches anything they've built recently so I'm thinking it isn't the current Master Plan.

 

[Jcb890]

I think the Mountain Collective makes a lot of sense, but it's really only attractive to people that are going to make a trip out west. There are a whole lot of eastern skiers that won't be doing that. So I think that it's a partial answer, but more is needed.

I looked at the Mountain Collective, but it didn't really make enough sense. Unless you planned a trip to at least 2 of the resorts, it doesn't seem to help all that much since it is only 2 passes for each mountain. Whistler and Stowe will now be coming off of the Mountain Collective as well.

If it provided 3-4 or 5 tickets to each mountain like the MAX Pass does, it would make more sense to me.

 

[Jcb890]

I don't know Win, but I would wager a lager sum of money that I've read more CEO statements than 99% of posters on this board (regretfully, as they're almost universally painfully boring), and after you've read a few thousand statements like that, you get pretty good at quickly discerning their motivation, their hidden (they erroneously think well) agenda, and at reading between the lines. So you're right, I dont know the guy, but I'd stake my life on his being worried by Vail/Stowe after reading his open letter.

Perhaps maybe not fear, but he's at least worried or concerned, which is proven by the simple fact that they put out a letter like this at all.

 

[BenedictGomez]

That said, their pass offerings have responded to pressure by becoming so fragmented.

I think they're about to get even fragmentier'.

That definitely looks much more natural and less crowded. :smile:

I'm genuinely loathing this "ski megalopolis" craze that's taking over.

Ten or Fifteen years from now, I see myself frequenting the Plattekills and the Mad River Glens of the world far more often (Smuggs too, on the odd-chance Smuggs is still Smuggs).

 

[cdskier]

I looked at the Mountain Collective, but it didn't really make enough sense. Unless you planned a trip to at least 2 of the resorts, it doesn't seem to help all that much since it is only 2 passes for each mountain. Whistler and Stowe will now be coming off of the Mountain Collective as well.

If it provided 3-4 or 5 tickets to each mountain like the MAX Pass does, it would make more sense to me.

I'm not a big fan of the Mountain Collective structure either, although I believe it does give you 50% off single day tickets at the participating resorts once you use the 2 included ones. So you could theoretically visit only 1 resort on the list and use the pass for 6 days (2 "free" + 4 50% off) and that could cover the cost of the pass.

I do like the way MAX does it better though.

 

[mbedle]

Sorry - wrong plan. This is the plan approved in 2012. Not nearly as bad.

 

[benski]

What's the date on that plan? It doesn't even look like it matches anything they've built recently so I'm thinking it isn't the current Master Plan.

I think its from around when the gate house was built. Its a perfect copy of the pre Castlerock pub addiction Gate House so likely the hight of the real estate bubble. I think after 2008 this was thrown out. The rice/gad/whatever area is 2 huge building as opposed to the I think 5-7 smaller building. Those big building could not have been built at the cautiousness they have taken recently.

 

[thetrailboss]

That definitely looks much more natural and less crowded. :smile:

:lol:

Much more organic.

 

[slatham]

I think they're about to get even fragmentier'.



I'm genuinely loathing this "ski megalopolis" craze that's taking over.

Ten or Fifteen years from now, I see myself frequenting the Plattekills and the Mad River Glens of the world far more often (Smuggs too, on the odd-chance Smuggs is still Smuggs).

And Magic? Magic will still be Magic......

 

[raisingarizona]

Not to turn this into another Sugarbush thread, but you have to admit that Win is indeed concerned. They've always been sandwiched in between Stowe to the north and its lofty reputation and Killington to the south and its reputation. Stowe was just sold to a HUGE ski resort player. And I've read that Killington's Base Area expansion was finally approved....whether it happens or not we have yet to see. So once again Sugarbush has to try to distinguish itself from these two.

And for the record I like Win. Always have. He's done a great job. But let's understand that it is a tough business and competition is fierce.

With the right marketing I would think that that should be pretty easy. Well maybe not easy but possible.

 

[raisingarizona]

4000 acres of skiable terrain? Come on now!?! That's not very truthful.

 

[Jcb890]

http://www.sugarbush.com/terrain/stats/

Under terrain it adds up to 581 acres, but then claims 4,000+. How is that possible? Do they count all the unpatrolled and unchecked woods all around the area? Even Killington claims under 2,000 acres with both Killington and Pico.

 

[snoseek]

4000 acres of skiable terrain? Come on now!?! That's not very truthful.

Haha yeah that a big ol stretch for sure. As far as the east goes its sitting on a HUGE chunk of skiable property but 4000 acres is ridiculous.

I imagine Sugarbush will do fine in the end. It will be the goto place in Northern VT if you want a large diverse mtn without dealing with ridiculous amounts of people. It would make sense for them to hook on with MC for sure. In the long run if they keep the same prices people may come back after dealing with the shitshow that will become Stowe.

 

[Jcb890]

I'm not a big fan of the Mountain Collective structure either, although I believe it does give you 50% off single day tickets at the participating resorts once you use the 2 included ones. So you could theoretically visit only 1 resort on the list and use the pass for 6 days (2 "free" + 4 50% off) and that could cover the cost of the pass.

I do like the way MAX does it better though.

I don't think its a terrible deal, I just felt like we'd get more bang for our buck using the MAX Pass.

How much was the MC Pass?
Does anyone have any info or stats on how well it sold?