Vehicle Related Opinios Wanted

[o3jeff]

You guys may be surprised with used car values right now. With the way things are, people are holding on to their cars longer. Economics 101: This has created a shortage of used cars. Hence, values are up a bit. Oh, and cash for clunkers took a number of perfectly good vehicles off the road.

This and also if you are looking into a car that is a year or 2 old you might want to check new since a lot of manufactures are offering 0% financing and probably easier to beat a dealer around on the price of a new car vs used so it might not be too much more to get a brand new vehicle.

 

[jaja111]

.........2 have made it to 200K; a Honda Accord and a Ford Explorer............

Ford Exploder with 200k!?! Must have definitely been made on a Wednesday. Good you ditched the Ford, but the Honda had 200k more to go.

Truthfully, it always amazes me that some known-to-be ultra reliable cars die horrible deaths early and some known-to-be ultra unreliable cars seem to be unbreakable. There will always be the Plymouth K car that made it to half a million miles and the Toyota Corolla that basket cased and was bought back by the dealer under lemon law statutes.

 

[hammer]

Car-related threads always seem to get a lot of responses...or is it that there isn't as much ski-related stuff to discuss...:-?

 

[bvibert]

:lol:

No matter how you use it, it's still a Porsche. Outside of Ferrari, Lamborghini, Bentley and a few other exotics, a Porsche is the ultimate status symbol car. How you drive it doesn't change that fact C-ten.

I think it's great that you've been successful enough to afford such a vehicle and I do realize that you can pay similar money for SUVs from more pedestrian brands, but don't kid yourself C-ten, Porsche = status symbol car.

I see what c-ten is saying. If you buy the car because you want/need whatever features it has then it's different than buying the car because the neighbors will be jealous. One of the benefits to buying a Porsche is the performance, if you're not using the performance then it really is just a status symbol.

If I had the money I'd own nice cars like that too, not to show that I had that kind of money, but because I appreciate nice cars with performance. I think there is some distinction.

 

[o3jeff]

Car-related threads always seem to get a lot of responses...or is it that there isn't as much ski-related stuff to discuss...:-?

It's almost like talking about politics!

 

[dartmouth01]

Good info jaja. I imagine the high price of steel also pushes up old car prices up too. I had a friend who just sent a car to the junkyard and got a couple grand for it, just in steel. Got a few hundred more for the alloy rims.

I know a guy who for about 10 years bought a new car every year. He paid cash the first year for a new car, and then trade in the car for another new car + cash every year. He'd wait to get a really good deal on a current model year car, and then trade in the previous car for it for a good deal too. Ultimately, in 10 years, he calculated he only lost about $15-20k (not including taxes of course) on all the deals. Considering if he held onto the first car for those 10 years, chances are he'd have also lost almost the same amount in depreciation, he didnt do too bad. Considering he never had to pay for service, it may have even balanced in his favor. And he got to drive a new car every year. However, it requires ALOT of patience and research to do it right, its not for the faint of heart.

Working in the business, THIS is the primary reason along with reduced supply for economic and natural disaster reasons that it is a seller's market. Cars are not cheap at the moment.

I also have to comment on KBB. People that believe Kelly blue book or even the NADA guide as being the bible of used car values are sheeple drinking the blue koolaid. While yes they are a guideline for values, they are skewed rather grossly by not only the reasons above but also by the fact they obtain their data from state registrations. So who here is not going to under-report to the DMV the sale price of the used car they purchased? Tax tax tax tax tax. The older the vehicle and higher the mileage the more skewed down the sales figures are. Nick's Saab will not sell for $1500 to $2000 at auction. Currently in western NY, where there aren't even that many Saabs or Saab fans, it would easily take $3500 - $4000 and sell retail at $6k. For the Northeast as a whole this could be $500 more. I know this from being AT the auctions, not speculating.

Besides KBB is a site to buy cars now and its an enormous conflict of interest to true values.

And as for trading a vehicle in, or rather not trading in, it all depends on your perspective. What is your time worth dealing with asshat offers on your car? It is a royal PIA but indeed sometimes necessary to get the best value, especially if you have a non niche vehicle (i.e. Toyota Corolla). I have a car that across most dealerships would take $16k to $18k for the trade, but the dealership it was purchased at is giving me $22k. Most dealers see an Outback XT as a gas hog battle wagon but the Subaru dealership sees it as a big WRX sleeper and they know of more than a few buyers. Yes, I might be able to get $23k at private party sale but the hassle isn't worth it to me. And btw, fwiw - the private party price in VG condition on the over beloved KBB is $20k on this car. If that was the true value of the car, no dealer in the world would give me $2k over private sale for a trade. KBB is dead.

 

[o3jeff]

I like new cars and tend to get one every 1-2 years. I will usually wait till October and grab a leftover off the lot since they are usually willing to deal on them since the new model year cars are on the lot. I don't put a lot of miles on the cars and tend to buy cars with favorable trade in values so it has been working out for me.

 

[ctenidae]

I see what c-ten is saying. If you buy the car because you want/need whatever features it has then it's different than buying the car because the neighbors will be jealous. One of the benefits to buying a Porsche is the performance, if you're not using the performance then it really is just a status symbol.

If I had the money I'd own nice cars like that too, not to show that I had that kind of money, but because I appreciate nice cars with performance. I think there is some distinction.

Exactly my point- thanks for summing it so nicely.

On the used car front, I'm really interested to see what the Hyundai trade in assurance program is going to do. Seems like they're effectively turning a purchase into a lease, since you really will just be paying down the depreciation (presumably they're being somewhat fair on the ending price adn putting it somewhere near where market value will or should be). Trouble is, you'd actually be paying more than if you just leased tha car (purchase payments are higher than lease payments).

 

[ctenidae]

I like new cars and tend to get one every 1-2 years. I will usually wait till October and grab a leftover off the lot since they are usually willing to deal on them since the new model year cars are on the lot. I don't put a lot of miles on the cars and tend to buy cars with favorable trade in values so it has been working out for me.

You're like me, there. I tend to lease, though. Probably shakes out about the same in the end, but I'm lazy and don't want to have to decide when I want to get a new car.

 

[dartmouth01]

I agree some good financing deals are to be had. However some of them won't let you take a cash back option if u take the financing. I was financed for 2.4% from a credit union for the 07 Chevy just bought. I assume new car rates are even lower, so it may make more sense to take the cash back and a couple percentage points of interest. Just have to do the math to figure out which is better for you.

This and also if you are looking into a car that is a year or 2 old you might want to check new since a lot of manufactures are offering 0% financing and probably easier to beat a dealer around on the price of a new car vs used so it might not be too much more to get a brand new vehicle.

 

[deadheadskier]

I see what c-ten is saying. If you buy the car because you want/need whatever features it has then it's different than buying the car because the neighbors will be jealous. One of the benefits to buying a Porsche is the performance, if you're not using the performance then it really is just a status symbol.

If I had the money I'd own nice cars like that too, not to show that I had that kind of money, but because I appreciate nice cars with performance. I think there is some distinction.

Understood and I don't think anything is wrong with that. However, owning a Porsche, Bentley etc, regardless of the reasoning for owning that car is a billboard stating the driver has a lot of money.

You don't have to buy something with the intention of flaunting your wealth for it to be a status symbol. Somethings in life, such as driving a Porche announce your status no matter what.

That's what I'm saying.

Because I "know" Cten and think he's a real down to earth guy and is a driving enthusiast, I don't think he owns a Porsche to say "look at me, I'm wealthy enough to drive a Porsche." It's money wisely spent for him.
However, that doesn't change my perception that many people who drive a Porsche also probably have their initials embroidered on their cashmere undies. :lol:

 

[ctenidae]

However, that doesn't change my perception that many people who drive a Porsche also probably have their initials embroidered on their cashmere undies. :lol:

But the cashmere is so comfy!

I totally agree with you on the show-off aspect. Probably Porsche drivers are the worst for it, especially the "cheaper" Boxster and such. There is, though, a really bizarre hard core set of Porsche fans who are just crazy about it. "Enthusiast" doesn't begin to do them justice.

Once you get above a certain price point, unless you're a sports star, I think the "show" portion of it falls off, and it becomes much more "this is a nice car." The CEO of my company is well into the Forbes 500 list and drives a Bentley because he likes the way it looks. There's a story that he was in Florida with his wife and they saw an Aston Martin that his wife thought was really pretty. So they went to a dealership and picked one out. He put down his credit card to buy it outright, and the dealer hesitated, unsure he could take plastic for a $180,000 car. Our CEO said "My name is ________. Google me." His wife drove off with a new car. That's not showing off, that's just being able to do it. There's a distinction there, too.

 

[o3jeff]

Might be able to get a good deal on a GM, plenty of inventory. Saw this article yesterday
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/gm-channel-stuffing-surges-all-time-record

 

[mlctvt]

Understood and I don't think anything is wrong with that. However, owning a Porsche, Bentley etc, regardless of the reasoning for owning that car is a billboard stating the driver has a lot of money.

You don't have to buy something with the intention of flaunting your wealth for it to be a status symbol. Somethings in life, such as driving a Porche announce your status no matter what.

That's what I'm saying.

Because I "know" Cten and think he's a real down to earth guy and is a driving enthusiast, I don't think he owns a Porsche to say "look at me, I'm wealthy enough to drive a Porsche." It's money wisely spent for him.
However, that doesn't change my perception that many people who drive a Porsche also robably have their initials embroidered on their cashmere undies. :lol:

I can definately see Cten's point. Back in the late 1980s I bought a 2 year old Porsche, Not as a status symbol but because I'm also a car enthusiast, I'm really into sports cars. I hate to drive auto "appliances" . I autocross and have to own at least 1 sports car at all times. My wife and I just sold our MR2 but we also have 2 turbocharged Subarus and a Miata . All of these cars are all slightly modified for better handling and increased power. Sometime in the future I'm going to buy another Porsche, probably a Cayman S or Boxster S.

The funny thing was when you own a Porsche you get alot of attention from other drivers , some good, some bad. People would sometimes give me the finger for no reason.:roll:
And on several occasions I had women follow me home (golddiggers? ).

 

[Glenn]

Working in the business, THIS is the primary reason along with reduced supply for economic and natural disaster reasons that it is a seller's market. Cars are not cheap at the moment.

I also have to comment on KBB. People that believe Kelly blue book or even the NADA guide as being the bible of used car values are sheeple drinking the blue koolaid. While yes they are a guideline for values, they are skewed rather grossly by not only the reasons above but also by the fact they obtain their data from state registrations. So who here is not going to under-report to the DMV the sale price of the used car they purchased? Tax tax tax tax tax. The older the vehicle and higher the mileage the more skewed down the sales figures are. Nick's Saab will not sell for $1500 to $2000 at auction. Currently in western NY, where there aren't even that many Saabs or Saab fans, it would easily take $3500 - $4000 and sell retail at $6k. For the Northeast as a whole this could be $500 more. I know this from being AT the auctions, not speculating.

Besides KBB is a site to buy cars now and its an enormous conflict of interest to true values.

And as for trading a vehicle in, or rather not trading in, it all depends on your perspective. What is your time worth dealing with asshat offers on your car? It is a royal PIA but indeed sometimes necessary to get the best value, especially if you have a non niche vehicle (i.e. Toyota Corolla). I have a car that across most dealerships would take $16k to $18k for the trade, but the dealership it was purchased at is giving me $22k. Most dealers see an Outback XT as a gas hog battle wagon but the Subaru dealership sees it as a big WRX sleeper and they know of more than a few buyers. Yes, I might be able to get $23k at private party sale but the hassle isn't worth it to me. And btw, fwiw - the private party price in VG condition on the over beloved KBB is $20k on this car. If that was the true value of the car, no dealer in the world would give me $2k over private sale for a trade. KBB is dead.

Excellent post. I was in the business very breifly...but had friends who were in it on a more full time basis. It's always interesting to follow.

 

[Glenn]

Had a talk last night and for now the plan is to hang onto the XC, I told her I'd get it detailed for her.

Congrats! I'm sure you guys will be happy without a new payment.

 

[Glenn]

Porsche makes some really nice cars/SUVs. As long as I can remember, I've always lusted after the Mid 1980's air cooled turbo 911's. Awesome cars; I love the lines and the engine just sings like no other. Yeah, all my friends wanted Testarosas or Countaches...I wanted the 911.

Some people buy cars for the image; others for the drive. If I had the means to buy a Porsche, I would. And not for the "look @ me!!!!111" factor, for the driving experience.

As any good gearhead will do, I'm often on the for sale sites, looking at stuff for sale. You can actually get a decent used Porsche Cayenne for under $30k. Yeah, the upkeep will be some dollars. But I have a feeling if you can spin some wrenches, the cost of ownership wouldn't be all that bad.

 

[Geoff]

I totally agree with you on the show-off aspect. Probably Porsche drivers are the worst for it, especially the "cheaper" Boxster and such. There is, though, a really bizarre hard core set of Porsche fans who are just crazy about it. "Enthusiast" doesn't begin to do them justice.

Yeah, but just about any Porsche "enthusiast" loathes the Cayenne. The same ones who hated the 924 with rear drum brakes.

And yeah, I've driven a couple of the V8 S models. My KMart next door neighbor has one. My friend Patty has one that can be seen in the Sunday River season pay parking lot. She has a 911, too. It's a nice car for a Volkswagen (J/K).

I live in the wrong places to ever consider owning one. In the summer, the nearest dealer is 45 minutes. In the winter the nearest dealer is at least 2 hours away.

I'm still trying to sort out what I'm going to do when I collapse my winter beater Mountaineer and VW GTI daily driver down to one car. I like driving "an econobox with a soul" but a GTI is not going to make it out of my KMart driveway on a 3' powder day. If they imported the new "R" with DSG, I'd consider it. Having owned a GTI with a 6-speed and another with the DSG system, I much prefer DSG. I think I can do fine with a little hatchback, fiberglass ski pod, and a receiver hitch for a lawn & garden trailer for Home Depot runs, bike rack, ....

 

[dartmouth01]

My friend has one of these porsches. Red, single stage paint, sure is purdy. But I never understood how much of a knee knocker it was until I went to a show with him. Holy cow, talk a about jealousy. But he's such an enthusiast, I think it's great he owns it.

Porsche makes some really nice cars/SUVs. As long as I can remember, I've always lusted after the Mid 1980's air cooled turbo 911's. Awesome cars; I love the lines and the engine just sings like no other. Yeah, all my friends wanted Testarosas or Countaches...I wanted the 911.

Some people buy cars for the image; others for the drive. If I had the means to buy a Porsche, I would. And not for the "look @ me!!!!111" factor, for the driving experience.

As any good gearhead will do, I'm often on the for sale sites, looking at stuff for sale. You can actually get a decent used Porsche Cayenne for under $30k. Yeah, the upkeep will be some dollars. But I have a feeling if you can spin some wrenches, the cost of ownership wouldn't be all that bad.

 

[SKIQUATTRO]

Bentley, Aston Martin, Porsche, Florida, SW Connecticut....hedge fund?